Royal Guard PEND

[Squirrel5555]

I still disagree with a name like that. It is very broad and doesnt represent any specific type of unit. You could be right, a vanguard could be made up of super heavy knights, but it could also be some peasants with sticks. It represents many types of soldiers, tactics or weapons. Atleast royal guard gets the point across.

Anyway Im afraid it will just become over or under used compared to the current units that it will be a "hybrid" of, depending on the stats and abilities.

[SirPat]

It looks like a foot knight only in the first post. Later this unit proposition is more like roman pretorian, although it could be easily made into something more unique - e.g. by lowering speed to 2, essentially making it pricier shielder with additional properties and ability.
Vanguard just meant army put on the front - skirmishers were rarely despicted as army in european sources (in fact often all non-nobles were ignored, unless directly commanded by one of them).
So it could be defending army (not advancing), depending on tactics.
What's more - in some cultures first line was made from elites with best armor and less experienced warriors suppoerted them from 2nd or third.
So vanguard still makes sense.

Goodpoint, ive completely forgot about that

[Badnorth]

I already posted a sprite here it may fit/not fit to vanguard. ( it is unused and I didn't copied a reference so It won't be historical or historically correct so feel free to edit it ) .

[ProtectorLordGarmin]

If the idea seems bad then yes, help me improve it!
That's the point of us discussing it: it needs tweaking before it can be added.

Here's where you got wrong. Before it can be added? Its more of a If it would be added. Youre Mega knight man is just another knight whatever tweaks you do with it its still just another knight.
You know what that means it's too generic to be added. What I want you to do is make this unit special too make him not some other knight.
Remember it doesnt mean you suggested it that means it'll be added. Change all of these units first give them appropriate names give them roles and dont make them to a generic knight but with more armor make him special to be added

As for general that should be talked about at another topic. And pls dont make a topic filled with 4+ unit suggestions. I myself wont help you to Tweak these units cause as of now I dont see any reason to add them. Thats all.

First of all, there's 3 unit suggestions: Vanguard, Royal Guard (if indeed these two names are the ones we are taking) and General. count them, that's 1,2,3.
Secondly, I actually expected the "if it can be added" bit. Think about the tweaking line a bit more. It needs tweaking, changing, amending before it can be added. Technically, if it not added it ends up being a case of "couldn't tweak it enough to make it viable".
In addition, I described a ranged ability earlier, about throwing javelins / hand axes. That makes it more unique: we have no Heavy Infantry with superior Regular and Pierce armour, and a ranged ability. If we do, then sure, that makes it a little generic.
Finally, it's "Protector", not "Proctor".
I will overlook all your grammatical errors for the time being.

[Squirrel5555]

[Endru1241]

First of all, there's 3 unit suggestions: Vanguard, Royal Guard (if indeed these two names are the ones we are taking) and General.

My point here is, that one topic, like the name suggests should disscuss only things connected by some common scheme.
General isn't related to the other two in any way.
Completely different unit with different concept.
Ergo - the topic somehow may seem like filled by various high price unit propositions.

[SirPat]

In addition, I described a ranged ability earlier, about throwing javelins / hand axes.

Good, atleast thats some improvement.
Now determine which one do you want. There is already a roman pretorian unit in game which is a heavier roman legionaire with trow javelin ability.
Make him carry a throwing axe instead so he'll be different

Here's a question. Is this unit in history? I guess not( im not talking about the general)
If its not in history we need to make it a generic version of this unit type

That makes it more unique: we have no Heavy Infantry with superior Regular and Pierce armour, and a ranged ability. If we do, then sure, that makes it a little generic.

Like how much armor(I speak American-english thats why I spelled this Armor not armour. Just in case if you thought of it as a typo )
Give me values. Does this unit gets blacksmith upgrades? If yes, then we need to balance it out. So what is this unit's role/use super tank with throw axe ability? Some kind of better pretorian guard? How about cost? Pretorian guards cost 6 turns. How about your super tank unit? Will be an 8turn unit? But if its affected by clacksmith upgrades it should cost about 9 turns cause itll be too easy to have this super tank.
That's all remember you've improved this time your explaining stuff in more detail keep it up.

The typo part made me laugh

[Badnorth]

I hope this unit doesn't go above 9 or 10 armor this'll be a pain in the arse to deal with .
There should be weaknesses like Low hp / high armor to counter it somehow.

[SirPat]

Max foot knight have 8/6 armor and since proctor guy here is gonna make vanguard unit to a super tank it'll be a 10/8 +blacksmith upgrades +2/2 so itll be a 12/10 its too high now even broadswordsmen couldnt more than 1 dmg even with broadswordsman 11+2dmg=13dmg -12armor itll still deal 1dmg even with max sword upgrades for broadswordsman

[SirPat]

Max foot knight have 8/6 armor and since proctor guy here is gonna make vanguard unit to a super tank it'll be a 10/8 +blacksmith upgrades +
2/2 so itll be a 12/10 its too high now even broadswordsmen couldnt deal more than 1 dmg even with broadswordsman 11+2dmg=13dmg -12armor itll still deal 1dmg even with max sword upgrades for broadswordsman

[Badnorth]

10/8 armor is ridiculously wrong,even higher than spartan who is a melee combat expert ,but If that's gonna be then make its hp 25 below and Maceman or flailsoldier should easily kill it .

[Badnorth]

Even though I hate annoying poison archers they can kill this unit in small amount of turns in a battle.

[ProtectorLordGarmin]

I never said I wanted a unit with 10 armour. I think for "non boss" units it should be capped at 8/9 with blacksmith, or at 10 with no upgrades.
The General I proposed was originally going to be a third unit, but I have since been convinced otherwise.
For Vanguard armour should be like 6/6 or 6/4, or 7/4
For Royal Guard that should go up to 8/8, 8/6, or 9/6
General as a boss unit would have more powerful armour, 10/10 or thereabouts.

[ProtectorLordGarmin]

Actually, I changed my mind, 10 and higher is reserved for boss units (in my eyes anyways). And the highest should be 8 or 9 with no blacksmith for regular units.

[SirPat]

I never said I wanted a unit with 10 armour. I think for "non boss" units it should be capped at 8/9 with blacksmith, or at 10 with no upgrades.
The General I proposed was originally going to be a third unit, but I have since been convinced otherwise.
For Vanguard armour should be like 6/6 or 6/4, or 7/4
For Royal Guard that should go up to 8/8, 8/6, or 9/6
General as a boss unit would have more powerful armour, 10/10 or thereabouts.

i used game logic to get those numbers

hmm so vanguard wont have that high armor is it affected by blacksmith upgrades?

[SirPat]

Actually, I changed my mind, 10 and higher is reserved for boss units (in my eyes anyways). And the highest should be 8 or 9 with no blacksmith for regular units.

what do you mean by boss unit? just like the inquisitor unit? each player can only have 0ne inquisitor, would the general be just like this?

[ProtectorLordGarmin]

If so, then we increase Royal Guard armour by 1 on all fronts and make it not blacksmith upgradable.
So if we can get Vanguard to 6+2/6+2, then we make Royal Guard by default 9/9, with no upgrades.
But that sounds a little overpowered.

UNLESS
We can make it only affected by one blacksmith upgrade.
So only Infantry Armour Level 2 will raise armour by 1, and Level 1 does not.
What do you think?

And in response to the question on the General, which popped up in the middle of me typing this, yes, only one General, but if it dies it can be produced at a Castle. Or if that sounds like too much, one General per side only, no production (so map editor only)

[SirPat]

And in response to the question on the General, which popped up in the middle of me typing this, yes, only one General, but if it dies it can be produced at a Castle. Or if that sounds like too much, one General per side only, no production (so map editor only)

no no. it is already possible to set a unit to be trained once only per player so lets make the general a unit trainable at the castle for the cost of ... 10 turns
have you tried the inquisitor unit yet? once trained the button to train him turns grey(not selectable) we'll apply the same to the general and he should have.. pls qoute the stats of the general pls so I can better help we should give him a special aura or many aura's

[ProtectorLordGarmin]

General Stats... Oh boy. Here goes...
Power: 20 (that's not outrageous, Epic Trainee has that much/more than that)
Hp: 60 (again, Epic Trainee has this much)
Armour: 10/10
Speed: 2
Sight: 3
Ability: Throw Javelin, 4 or 3 range, 10 or 15 power, deals damage based on regular armour
Heal Bonus: 2.5?
Conversion resist: 1000 % (so lower resist effect can't make him convertible and/or make him unable to be selected when converting units)
Training: 10 turns, castle/ high castle only.
Auras: High morale, 4 range
Bonuses (this is the part people will lose their sh!t over)
50% vs Cavalry
10% vs Light infantry
25% vs Medium Infantry
50% vs Heavy Infantry
100% vs Archers
200% vs Elephant
If any of this sounds very very wrong, this is my first time making stats for a unit, please don't scream at me.

[Badnorth]

Much stronger than inquisitor , idk how to balance units like that so I'll leave it to endru or sirpat.

[SirPat]

General Stats... Oh boy. Here goes...
Power: 20 (that's not outrageous, Epic Trainee has that much/more than that)
Hp: 60 (again, Epic Trainee has this much)
Armour: 10/10
Speed: 2
Sight: 3
Ability: Throw Javelin, 4 or 3 range, 10 or 15 power, deals damage based on regular armour
Heal Bonus: 2.5?
Conversion resist: 1000 % (so lower resist effect can't make him convertible and/or make him unable to be selected when converting units)
Training: 10 turns, castle/ high castle only.
Auras: High morale, 4 range
Bonuses (this is the part people will lose their sh!t over)
50% vs Cavalry
10% vs Light infantry
25% vs Medium Infantry
50% vs Heavy Infantry
100% vs Archers
200% vs Elephant
If any of this sounds very very wrong, this is my first time making stats for a unit, please don't scream at me.

hmm if health and power is that high it should cost about 14-16 turns
javelins and axes wouldnt deal that much dmg
javelin 8power 25% bonus vs medium infantry
axe throw 6 Power 75%bonus vs light infantry
high morale should have 6 range to be more effective
you dont need resistance you can set a unit to convertable or not at its json files(dev/endru knows how)
im not great at bonus dmg balancing so...
wait bonuses to light-medium-heavy should be from highest(light) to lowest(heavy)
inshort
50% to light
25% to medium
10% to heavy
this represents strength of enemies armor when attacking them
with these stats this general is the most powerful being in the universe of AOS
(lol the highlander unit is stronger)

[SirPat]

Much stronger than inquisitor , idk how to balance units like that so I'll leave it to endru or sirpat.

seriously dont leave it to me i dont know anything about balancing

[Badnorth]

I think a general would fit as a buffer instead of a MASSMURDERMACHINE seriously though a high ranking officer especially a general wouldn't come to the battlefield where mass killing is ongoing.

[Badnorth]

As said many times by endru the general should have its own topic

[ProtectorLordGarmin]

OK, we should talk about Vanguard and Royal Guard here. I will make a new post with the General as the topic of discussion. Plus, I am going on the route of the FE General, who likely wear super heavy armour to stop themselves from being hurt, while still being able to fight and lead on the battlefield. As such, they have high health and armour, and low speed.

[SirPat]

Whats FE again?

[ProtectorLordGarmin]

Fire Emblem, a strategy game, similar to this one, except your army is made up of only a few units, but they are named, and much much more powerful so that combating loads of enemy units is easier. In FE, there is a General unit, which wears super heavy armour, and is real slow, but has superior defense, which allows them to easily tank physical hits. I propose it more as a boss unit because this game has no magic, so they would be really hard to kill (they had low magic defense in FE so it was easier to kill them with mages)

[SirPat]

Ill test it out. Is it on android?

[ProtectorLordGarmin]

It's a damn old game series. The ones I talked about for inspiration, 6 and 7, I think are on NES or GBA. The most recent one is Fire Emblem: Three Houses, which is for Nintendo Switch. Not many people favour the mobile spin off, Fire Emblem Heroes, but it is good if you want to dip your toes in the water a bit.

[SirPat]

oh hmm okie continue with the ideas what do you want a throw axe ability or throw spear ability?