Carroballista

[Hyuhjhih]

The very finest carroballista or quadrirotis. These siege weapons are fast, lethal and fragile. It have a blind spot where enemies are invulnerable from its bolts. Keep them at distance and watch them bleed.

Cost 6
Hp 25
Att 6(deflected by pierce armour)
Range 2->7
Miss 8% 》20%
Arm 0/5
Act 3
Speed 4

Bonus
Heavy foot melee 50%
Heavy cavalry, ships 33%
Elephants 50%
Ground transport 66%

On death picks a unit from the below:

Light cavalry/tier 1 only (last 4) 50% chance

Ballista/mobile tier 1 only (last 2) 10% chance

Swordsman/tier 1 only (last _) 40% chance

Trained at stable.

Categories: Siege machine, cavalry》chariots, mounted, anti heavy foot melee, anti heavy cavalry, anti elephants, anti ground transport.

[Badnorth]

Sounds nice to have this in-game. A more mobile Ballista. Though, it would be problematic to have this shoot and run from you from time to time. If it is going to be a chariot it should not be able to pass through forests.

[Badnorth]

And maybe adding more miss chance per speed since it is a mobile unit. Shooting can be hard while moving.

[SirPat]

And maybe adding more miss chance per speed since it is a mobile unit. Shooting can be hard while moving.

Yeah and for balance,

[L4cus]

I think it should have the trait to be unable to shoot if moves, less attack, less accuary, even 1 less range...idk, it depends on the cost and the place it is produced...we will soon have new roman mega building so that could be a good place to be produced...cst, i think 5 cost its ok...

[Badnorth]

How would that work?

[Hyuhjhih]

On death picks a unit from the below:

Light cavalry/tier 1 only (last 4) 50% chance

Ballista/mobile tier 1 only (last 2) 10% chance

Swordsman/tier 1 only (last _) 40% chance

How about the ballista changed to scorpio once it get accepted.

[Hyuhjhih]

Cavalry changed to chariots.
Miss chance 8 to 20%.

[Hyuhjhih]

I think it should have the trait to be unable to shoot if moves, less attack, less accuary, even 1 less range...idk, it depends on the cost and the place it is produced

No way, the quadrirotis is a better version of ballista itself, while having 3 action, it lacks aoe and precision. Dealing good damage to heavy foots, and the 6 cost than the 4 cost of ballista is for the temporary troops selection after death.

[Hyuhjhih]

I hope it is in a good balance now. Right?
Sprite, bady could you help? I am not in a good situation for prolonged drawing.

[Hyuhjhih]

My picture is a single horse like the light cavalry, a single infantry guy with a sword in waist like either swordsman or light cavalier, and a ballista. A chariot style.

Let me try as much as I can now.

[Badnorth]

20% Miss chance per speed looks annoying considering most units has 3 speed, 60% on them. Maybe 13% - 39% Miss chance to 3 speed units per shot.

[Badnorth]

On death picks a unit from the below:

Light cavalry/tier 1 only (last 4) 50% chance

Ballista/mobile tier 1 only (last 2) 10% chance

Swordsman/tier 1 only (last _) 40% chance

From my knowledge, it isn't possible to json a Percent based TransformOnDie effect. Or is it.. Idk.

[Hyuhjhih]

Since ressurction percent is available(as in case of reanimating random units with probability percent in the AoF undeads) i hope it can also be possible.

Thats why i planned for 20%
Ie, most heavy foot has 2 to 3 speed. Which is the main part.
So speed 2 => 40% miss, ~13%/act
3 =>60% miss, 20%/act
4=>80% miss, 26%/act
5=> 100% miss, 99%/ act
6=> 120% miss, 100%/ act. Chances of getting hit is null.

I hope this is the way the miss*speed% is formulated.

And if, the other case,ie, the miss chances are independent on number of actions, we can change the miss to 15% i hope.

[godOfKings]

If it has bonus then miss chance wont count, it will only miss other category infantry so i accept 20% miss chance as long as it has heavy category bonus

Also i think 8 dmg with 2 action is better

And i dont like the spawn on death part, this could b applied to many units including horses and elephants, not just this unit having special privilege

[Endru1241]

I moved the topic and changed it's name.

Generally I agree with implementing such unit.

But.
Points I really wonder about:

Act 3

Why would it ever have more actions than stationary form of ballista, which theoretically could employ Polybolos concept ?

Speed 5

Why heaviest chariot possible would have greatest speed?

Bonus
Ground transport 66%

Why would it destroy wagons in one turn, when balista cannot ? What's more - none of siege engines can (save for cannon ship upg2).

On death picks a unit from the below:

Light cavalry/tier 1 only (last 4) 50% chance

Ballista/mobile tier 1 only (last 2) 10% chance

Swordsman/tier 1 only (last _) 40% chance

Such death transformation completely disregards concept of unit representation as a group of people - carroballista would never have enough personnel to create a whole unit of swordsman. It would not have enough and completely differently trained horses to create light cavalry. Romans put lighter ballistae on carts - it would never have full capability of ballista (e.g. siege mode).

Trained at stable.

Why would it be THE ONLY ranged unit trained in stables? It clearly belongs to some roman building - preferably special to castrum.

[Endru1241]

I think it should have the trait to be unable to shoot if moves, less attack, less accuary, even 1 less range...idk, it depends on the cost and the place it is produced...we will soon have new roman mega building so that could be a good place to be produced...cst, i think 5 cost its ok...

Just like AoF siege - could be.

From my knowledge, it isn't possible to json a Percent based TransformOnDie effect. Or is it.. Idk.

Theoretically there is a trigger for ON_DIED, but it only executes effect affect (unit file), maybe if there was filter effect and effects related with real transformation. The rest of transformations could be set on fail of first.
But anything could go wrong and honestly - It's not worth it.

Since ressurction percent is available(as in case of reanimating random units with probability percent in the AoF undeads) i hope it can also be possible.

Thats why i planned for 20%
Ie, most heavy foot has 2 to 3 speed. Which is the main part.
So speed 2 => 40% miss, ~13%/act
3 =>60% miss, 20%/act
4=>80% miss, 26%/act
5=> 100% miss, 99%/ act
6=> 120% miss, 100%/ act. Chances of getting hit is null.

I hope this is the way the miss*speed% is formulated.

And if, the other case,ie, the miss chances are independent on number of actions, we can change the miss to 15% i hope.

You are almost right about how it works (for attacks at least - abilities have fixed miss chance and no possibility to damage adjacent unit on miss ).
But miss chance is for each action. So 5 speed guarantees miss in case of 20%.

But I never plan to bring another unit without aoe with miss chance that is not gunpowder related (although slingers may need to be nerfed, but they were impossibly annoying).

Edit: corrected myself.

[L4cus]

what? so miss chance works different now? oh, such a new feature

[Gral.Sturnn]

another reference

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/03/0c/0d ... 48f564.jpg

[L4cus]

good image!

[Endru1241]

what? so miss chance works different now? oh, such a new feature

Kinda embarassing, but I must have read it wrong.
I'll correct myself.

[Hyuhjhih]

I moved the topic and changed it's name.

Generally I agree with implementing such unit.

But.
Points I really wonder about:

Act 3

Why would it ever have more actions than stationary form of ballista, which theoretically could employ Polybolos concept ?

Speed 5

Why heaviest chariot possible would have greatest speed?

Bonus
Ground transport 66%

Why would it destroy wagons in one turn, when balista cannot ? What's more - none of siege engines can (save for cannon ship upg2).

On death picks a unit from the below:

Light cavalry/tier 1 only (last 4) 50% chance

Ballista/mobile tier 1 only (last 2) 10% chance

Swordsman/tier 1 only (last _) 40% chance

Such death transformation completely disregards concept of unit representation as a group of people - carroballista would never have enough personnel to create a whole unit of swordsman. It would not have enough and completely differently trained horses to create light cavalry. Romans put lighter ballistae on carts - it would never have full capability of ballista (e.g. siege mode).

Trained at stable.

Why would it be THE ONLY ranged unit trained in stables? It clearly belongs to some roman building - preferably special to castrum.

As i mentioned, from the info i got(external to wiki) quadrirotis were advanced more tensile version of the standard ballista itself and it was provided they were deploying bolts faster thanks to the extra tensile feature.
So i kept the act 3. Though it has enough miss to keep it not OP. And it was more specific to slow heavy foots.

Speed, i first proposed it as a cavalry, and later changed to chariot. So 5 to 4 (edited), i dont want to make that 3 since it has to be considerably faster than ballista itself. And it was lighter than chariots as it only carried an operator, a few bolts and the wooden platform.

As from ref, it was extensively used against fragile carriages to knockout the war commanders inside them and also for dissolving(as like raiding out) the backup ammo for enemies who were attacking the kingdom from borders. Maybe , if needed, it can be reduced to 1.25 shoted like dealing a plenty of damage.

I left the underscore of swordsman for filling a nice value. Sure i wanted leaving on it. The last_ i meant as leaving_ . Since the carroballist have all specific units embedded in them, it would be nice to have the on death effect. With appropriate leaving applied on it. The leaving i meant as not the full representation of units, but giving a chance of last stand of what remain. Like if horse dies, ballista and swordsman left, and if ballista breaks, the swordsman can mount on horse to give what it can.

I meant the mobile ballista only, where the other abilities ,even though available made locked. Or we can use the scorpio once it is accepted so that it blends perfectly with the roman theme.

Stable, how about workshop for representing sieges and borrowed horses, or stable for representing horses and borrowed sieges. I am not sure how to decide it. But really wanted it as a normal factory unit rather than a megabuilding unit.

[Aral_Yaren]

Hm, act 2 speed 3 may work, right? There it can slightly reduce the turn production to 5. And is it healable or repairable? Curious tho.

[Morningwarrior]

something that no one has yet mentioned, where can this troop be made and what will be required to be done?

[Hyuhjhih]

Stable, how about workshop for representing sieges and borrowed horses, or stable for representing horses and borrowed sieges. I am not sure how to decide it. But really wanted it as a normal factory unit rather than a megabuilding unit.

something that no one has yet mentioned, where can this troop be made and what will be required to be done?

Hm, act 2 speed 3 may work, right? There it can slightly reduce the turn production to 5. And is it healable or repairable? Curious tho.

May be, but not sure if it worth the cost, and 3 speed is not fast enough to run from infantry, since it uses horses.

This is chariots and this is carroballista

As you can see how much light it would be, it should be much faster.

[L4cus]

And a normal chariot would have between 2-4 horses with only one person...so in comparision u have the same or less amount of horses with more equipment to carry. Result? Charioballistae would be slower...3 speed, no more

[Endru1241]

I think speed 4 would work for it.

Training place was already mentioned - roman castrum, which is to be added.

As for balancing attack and similar - move using actions seems perfect for it.
It could also present more real approach of balista representation - no area damage, but higher range and pinpoint accuracy (no miss) - just like AoF one.

[Morningwarrior]

the Romans gaining strength again, but where could this troop be made? in a new structure? Roman arsenal? in the Roman garrison? or usually in the workshop and in the city? moreover and a good review of the statuses

[Hyuhjhih]

I think speed 4 would work for it.

Training place was already mentioned - roman castrum, which is to be added.

As for balancing attack and similar - move using actions seems perfect for it.
It could also present more real approach of balista representation - no area damage, but higher range and pinpoint accuracy (no miss) - just like AoF one.

[L4cus]

I am wating for new roman units and structures t_t
Will there be more roman techs?