Nerf Lamia IMPLEMENTED

[kingofgalaxies]

Maybe converting per se isn't op, but don't you think Lamia is way on the strong edge?
I mean, converting over the distance of 5, plus dodging (esp on forest) , plus curing, and not to forget that stacking a couple of rather cheap Lamias leads to safe conversions (multiplied lower resistance on target). And it's the only converting unit able to also fight normally. ALL THAT FOR ONLY 4 TURNS? Imo she surely deserves a haircut.

My suggestions for nerfing Lamia would be one /few of the following :
- cooldown of 2 turns for mind control
- ability range of 4 or even 3, not 5
- significantly less hp
- remove damage or cure component
- production cost : 5 turns

Please let us discuss

[Midonik]

moved to the right section


I've never seen lamias used in a mp game, so it's hard for me to say whether or not are they op. Let's remember that it requires quite a bit of research to even get them onto the field. You say they can "fight on their own", but that's an extravergation, their combat stats arent very high, any units with anti big creature bonuses and also not infantry, but vehicles with decent armor should deal with them quickly. Wdym mean by "safe conversions"?

It would be best for me to test them in a mp game but someone ( @noaharts ) won't take their turn.

[kingofgalaxies]

Thanks for your quick reply.
Yes, it takes time to research, but imo this should be justified with uniqueness of the unit, and not being overpowered.
What I mean with safe conversions: an example, you want to convert a human artillery with 20% mental resistance. One Lamia spells and fails, now the artillery has - 5%, so next time you use the spell there's a chance of 35+5%=40%. Even if failed again, next time it's 65%, and so on until the unit gets converted.
And now imagine a couple Lamias standing at distance, making it impossible to approach them for the fear of getting converted. Literally: I'm doing a mp game with my brother on the map Coastal 50x50 (I'm human he's reptilian), and sometimes I even need to delete my units after attacking just to save me from worse!!! This seems not right.
The problem is also that the artilleries, being the only decently ranged unit, are awful vs Lamias as they miss, plus Lamias dodge. If enough Lamias are stacked, makes this an unbreakable defensive wall. I guess this is especially a problem on bigger maps.

[Midonik]

On big maps like that, shouldn't you simply be able to spam so many balsitic missile launchers that your defense is equally impenetrable? They have much more range and their damage currently is very high as well, if you have enough of them you should be able to bomb lamias into the ground.

[kingofgalaxies]

That's unfortunately not realistic. Ballistic launcher costs 7 turns (not 4), so no spamming. And it's only effective vs buildings. It has a miss rate of 30%, so there's only 10% chance to hit a Lamia, which has a speed of 3 (30x3=90% of missing). The damage vs units is only 15, and area damage is insignificant, esp as Lamia is affected by regeneration.

Anyone want to share their own opinion? (see 1st post)

[Anchar]

My opinion is that I have not seen lamias in battle, so I don’t know that as far as spam with ballista is concerned, this is the most common tactic for human beings and spam with ballista is very possible, but I think that in the example of my fight with insectoids, ballista will not be able to kill even 1 lamia in 1 turn. In the end, I think that if the Lamiaes need a nerf, then I think that through reducing the range of their mind control.

[kingofgalaxies]

Thanks for your suggestion. Apparently I'm the only one yet suffering from Lamia abuse haha.
Still, spamming Lamias (4t) is way easier and more annoying than spamming ballistic launchers (7t) who I still don't see as effective unit killers.

[kingofgalaxies]

I mean, you'd only have to look at Lamia statsheet to see that it's waaaay to valuable for 4 turns.

[kingofgalaxies]

Maybe converting per se isn't op, but don't you think Lamia is way on the strong edge?
I mean, converting over the distance of 5, plus dodging (esp on forest) , plus curing, and not to forget that stacking a couple of rather cheap Lamias leads to safe conversions (multiplied lower resistance on target). And it's the only converting unit able to also fight normally. ALL THAT FOR ONLY 4 TURNS? Imo she surely deserves a haircut.

My suggestions for nerfing Lamia would be one /few of the following :
- cooldown of 2 turns for mind control
- ability range of 4 or even 3, not 5
- significantly less hp
- remove damage or cure component
- production cost : 5 turns

Please let us discuss

This topic is already pretty old. Any chance of this getting implemented? The unit is clearly too oppressive rn.

[Midonik]

Now that we nerfed humans we should at least decrease the convert range.

[kingofgalaxies]

This, or give it 2 turns cooldown. Lamia could still cure or even fight in the drop turn.

[kingofgalaxies]

If a range reduction. I'd suggest 3 tiles for conversion.

[Midonik]

I'm not sure how this didn't come up in the discussion. I never realised that lamias can be affected by blood frenzy ability of the grey psions, letting them use the mind control ability twice a turn. That is not intended, blood frenzy should only boost conventional attacks, not psionic!