classical hoplite

[L4cus]

this would be a previous stage of current hoplite who would be renamed to "helenic hoplite"

current hoplite stats
cost 3
hp 21
attack 9
range 1
armour 2/3
speed 3
sight 4
heal aff. 150%

classical hoplite
hp 18
attack 8
armour 2/2

hellenic hoplite rebalance
hp 24
attack 10
armour 2/3

everything else would remain the same

classical


hellenic

[godOfKings]

Why does image suggest classic hoplite is more geared with cooler helmet?

[DreJaDe]

Because one is more metallic than the other.

But from what I read. It seems that being more nimble makes the hoplites more effective in battles.

Also, the lighter armor offers almost the same protection as the metallic version.

[L4cus]

yes! linothorax offers the same proteciton as the courass clasical hoplites wore, i heard linothorax was even better ressiting arrows...

[Endru1241]

linothorax offers the same proteciton as the courass clasical hoplites wore, i heard linothorax was even better ressiting arrows...

If it would offer the same or similar protection, then why did officers still use bronze bell cuirasses?
And better protection from arrows, when there is no way to make them slip, due to armor curves?
No way.

From my knowledge about material resistance per weight:
Soft leather -> layered fabric -> boiled leather -> bronze -> iron
Plus there is wood somewhere in between textiles, depending on wood type.
And I am taking about average energy of the hit required to damage through armor and/or break integrity of material.

Armor construction provided they had variation in exact resistance to type of hit, that delivered energy.
And some of these materials could not be used in some types of construction.
E.g. first too made terrible outer layer, because there was no way for them to have solid and smooth surface, capable of redirecting lower energy attacks.

When constructing an armor most logical is to use for outer layer hardest, most solid and smooth surface to redirect (make slip) as many attacks as possible.
On the other hand innermost layer needs to be soft enough to not be harsh for the skin.

Depending on desirable final weight of armor you'd add middle layer made of cheapest material providing the best possible energy resistance - either by springiness, material absorption (breaking down in the effect) or distributing the energy to wider area.
In some cases inner/middle layer was forced by the need to connect outer layer which was not integral.

We still don't know what was linothorax really made from, but there is some suspicion, that it could be some composite of hardened leather on the outside with linen or wool inner parts. Others suggest pure leather or pure linen or pure wool.

In any of these cases - you'd always get better armor by wearing solid metal on the outside.

It's only the fact, that most weapons were made from better and better iron with time, so bronze stopped being indestructible and became comparatively weaker and weaker.
To top that with bronze age collapse - contact between civilisations, that resulted with easy access to bronze made it pricier and pricier with time, as most would probably come from reuse.

So it's probably just from practical approach of something like "if stronger strike will still kill me - why pay so much?", that linothorax became more widely used.
Plus with increasing size of armies - Greek states could have too less bronze to even equip everyone, even if having proper finance to afford it.

To the point:
Bronze bell cuirass was superior to linothorax, but also too pricy for common warriors by time, while providing less protection by time.

[L4cus]

my bad
a question...is reducing turn cost already aviable? the hleenic (linothorax) hoplite could be cheaper then...or the upgrade would have higher stats due to the increasing numbers in the troop...armour would remain the same jus increasing hp a little

[Endru1241]

Decreasing turn cost - probably.
I haven't tested it.

It could be actually good to have exact current stats evolve to being 2 turn unit.

But I am a little afraid such solution disturbs current way game works.
Player can use production to invest either in tech, military, various supports or workers.
In case of military-tech balance there is always a question if it is enough to properly function and spare enough to be later useful.
Tech can be researched even very far from battle, but wasting time on it when you could have produced more earlier and spread a little further (and managed to defend it).
So until having enough factories there is always a dilemma.

But player won't directly loose anything by upgrading earlier or later, spare situation he looses some units due to them being too weak.
Of course upgrade or boosting tech can also be used as special technique of surprise - sudden boost of parameters can be outside of enemy calculation.


With tech decreasing cost there is no such tactic.
Plus clear disadvantage of wasting turns.
Tech becomes super top priority, even on very early game.
And that puts players choosing this culture in clear disadvantage.

[L4cus]

then just irsing hp and attack a little as a reference to the higher numbers they could recruit using linothorax is fine?