Discussion of possible Roman Nerf IMPLEMENTED

[Sombrar +1]

Good Morning
I wanted to create this thread to discuss some nerfs that might be needed by the Romans, after talking and discussing with some very experienced players, the Romans need of some nerfs mainly in relation to "Summoning Helpers" which is the skill of the Roman garrison, since after researching the necessary technology you can basically summon as many possible units depending on how many garrisons you have, which can become somewhat more problematic on maps with many city centers, plus the ability works at no cost,so basically every 6 turns you already have a whole army ready and it can be quite difficult to face so many units at the same time,so some small nerfs I could suggest would be that the "Summon Helpers" tech research time is 6-8 turns, as also after researching the tech it would still have than waiting for the cooldow to use it and also giving a little more time per opponent before summoning so many units, another can also be the increase of the cooldow going from 6 to 8 turns of cooldown.
Another issue would be a small nerf on the auxiliary archer, being able to reach the same attack range as a longbow archer besides which can be a bit tough, so I suggest a nerf of -1 to auxiliary archer range and also -1 or -2 health, while in Sagittarius it can be -1 or - 2 health.

I really like the romans and the gameplay they offer and also that they are so well balanced for me, but I think a discussion with some nerfs is viable.

[Sombrar +1]

Ah, one detail I forgot is that after building the Roman garrison you would still have to wait for the cooldow to summon the helpers instead of building and being able to summon.

[b2198]

Yeah, I agree on the auxiliaries cooldown nerf.

Though instead of nerfing the range of the archers directly, I think it would be better to reduce the range given by legion missile tactics II from 2 to 1 (so that they won't have archers that fire as far as a longbowman) instead, and buff the range of auxiliary skirmisher and vexilarius by +1 to compensate (also maybe buff vexilarius' p. armor too? Theirs is too low for a skirmisher imo).

The (only, I think?) other issue I see with them are senators, but they should probably be discussed in the topic about conversion/demoralise, since it's not a problem unique to the romans.

[godOfKings]

I m not sure if demoralise conversion is exactly a problem yet its possible to counter them with promote loyalty and dismiss propaganda, infact i think senators r the biggest counter for senators XD

[Sombrar +1]

Really, a decrease in ll legion tactics from 2 to 1 might be better but I still prefer to decrease by just 1 the range of the auxiliary archer and sagittarius could stay as it is already in range, besides also wanting a slight increase in auxiliary skirmish and vexilarius stats both in health and in armor, the range for skirmishers can stay the same, because I remember that with 5 range they would have the same base range as Atlatl which should have the most range in base stats.
Senators may also need a review,but it also already has several ways to avoid demoralization, being that it is much more accessible to promote loyalty.

[b2198]

I m not sure if demoralise conversion is exactly a problem yet its possible to counter them with promote loyalty and dismiss propaganda, infact i think senators r the biggest counter for senators XD

(again, better off discussed in that topic, since inquisitors and other converters also apply to this, but anyway)
And that is a problem, because it means you can't effectively fight them without using them (or a much larger and costlier counter-setup involving siege towers and fervor), so they become almost mandatory to have if the players involved are not far apart in strength (like inquisitor already is, because he's the worst offender for conversion/demoralise issues, and on top of that can also "disable" enemy inquisitors/healers/missionaries/mOnAsTeRiEs/etc with excommunicato).

It's like the old "TC-trained zerks in smaller maps" problem all over again, but this time in any map size.

[Sombrar +1]

Well, the inquisitor really is a unit that can give a lot of trouble even with the limitations of being limited to two factories and being a single unit, since he has a combo of abilities as well the fact that he can negate most units that are effective against him is problematic, but perhaps the biggest problem is precisely those skills like demoralize that may need a review, because the inquisitor is a unit that many players use him as they build their factory just to get it and wasting a production structure to buff their other units.The senator, on the other hand, has a very limited production, being a little difficult to send large quantities of them, but it is also a unit that a use similar to the inquisitor, like building the factory of both and just recruiting them, besides that also in a way they are still quite "strong" since even with so many units made to negate them they can still be difficult to combat.

[Endru1241]

In the upcoming dev:
- auxilary summon 6->7 turns
- auxilary summon starts with cooldown

And in the version before upg. missile tactic was nerfed to 1 range.

[b2198]

In the upcoming dev:
- auxilary summon 6->7 turns
- auxilary summon starts with cooldown

And in the version before upg. missile tactic was nerfed to 1 range.

I think that should do. Nice, and welcome back again : D