Unit Tier/Rank References.

[Dagravian]

This post is directed to all versions of AOS game! But it was posted here for a better visibility!

Since we periodically release new units, sometimes units may have and do the same role than others that already have been released with some small or drastic stat/cosmetical changes between them, and also we are always with new cool unit ideas that sometimes are the same than an existing one, in order to catalog things to avoid mess in the future and allow a wider range of content without break the balance, I suggest making a rank system in the units (i like to call it "Tier"), based on the overall of stats/efficiency they have in game, this will work as Reference for old and new units and structures... It will not change any current stats of the units. This is how it should be like.

Tier level equal Unit/Tech Development and the current AGE/ERA (that i put between brackets).
*The civilization Age is just representative, for a better understanding of the context of power for the units.*
Dark age on tier 01, Feudal age on tier 04, Castle age on tier 08, Imperial age on tier 11.

Tier 01 = Peasant units (Dark Age), Tier 02 = Basic units , Tier 03 = Trained units, Tier 04 = Experienced units (Feudal Age), Tier 05 = Veteran units, Tier 06 = Expert units, Tier 07 = Mercenary units, Tier 08 = Elite units (Castle Age), Tier 09 = Siege units, Tier 10 = Legendary units, Tier 11 = Hero units (Imperial Age), Tier 12 = Champions (like the King Unit and the great wyvern), Tier 13 = Historical Leaders (units like Alexander the great, Frederico Barbarossa, Willian Wallace, Napoleon... And the Wonder Building), and Tier 99 = Special units, (like T-fighter, peashooter, and other campaign units...).


-Example 01: The "Swordman", "archer", "skirmisher", "spearman"... They are basic combat units, they will be classified as Tier 2, when they do receive the second upgrade, they will be considered "Tier 3", when they do receive the 3rd upgrade, they will be considered as "Tier 4" units. Basically every time you do envolve an unit, it ranks a tier...
-Example 02: Towers: The Watch Tower can be considered as tier 1, guard tower as rank 3, fortress as rank 5, bombard tower as 8 or 9? (Still figuring out where to fit the gunpowder based units) and castle as tier 8 building...
-Example 03: Calvary: Starting with scout horseman on Tier 3, the Chariot knights on T4, knight on T4, Archer horseman on T5 , Mongol horseman and knight templar on T6 , elephant archer, elephant and Centurion on T8 And so on with the other cavalries...

Following this idea, the "Tier Ranks" will be added as a new option or could be added to "allow upgrades" when starting a map (as "Enable Tech" up to tier 1 or up to tier 2, 3 and so on up until "All Upgrades"), so people could make "limited" tech games based on how much tech they have unlocked so far for even fair games between Veterans and Newcomers!

Notes* (up to edits by Staff members)
-Anything in this post can be changed anytime depending on the progress of things...
-The Tier feature will not change any previous stat of any unit, it will only allow a better way to catalog the things...
-Tier 01 "Dark age", consists only by peasant units, without military units and buildings, made by units such as workers, transports and scouts. (the basic scouts, Horseman scouts should be tier 3 or higher) and simple buildings such as palisades, watchtowers and wood bridges.
-Tier ranks will also be showed on unit/stucture description for a faster and an improved average view.
-Blacksmiths/Tech Centers upgrades will not affect the Tier rankings, since it will be based on the RAW stats of each unit.
-In game researchable techs will might be also cataloged and receive the Tier ranks.
-Each version of the game will have its own tier line based on the mechanics of each universe.
-Newer unit ideas MUST have the "Referencial Tier" for balancing purposes when posted...
-...
-Daniel is the DEV! His Word will be Final!

Thanks for read it and if you have anything to add or ask about it, just put there!... And sorry if I wrote anything wrong... I don't use these forums in a while.

[LordOfAles]

Sorry,i didnt get this whole thing,we already have races,why to complicate them with tiers?And tiers dont really indicate unit strenght,for example:Spearman(Tier 2)can kill an knight(Tier 4).My opinion is to leave it as it is.Maybe this system could get in in some new version of AOS

[Dagravian]

This isn't meaned to complicate the things, it is just the oposite... I guess i should change the topic title to "Unit Tier/Rank References and Roles."

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(I also forgot to put this part... It might be essencial to understand what i mean...)
Unit Role = Unit class
Tier level = Ranking of overall score made based on units of that share the same role, class and technological progression about their efficiency in the battle. (like the tech tree of world of tanks)
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Because the role of a spearman is exactly to eliminate the cavalry, that is why they have a bonus against them, but they don't perform very well against other basic units, meanwhile, the knight will slay them all without problems... And the main point is to be a referencial of power between the units over their overral efficiency on each role, not necessarily by strengh itself...

For example, the knight and the hussard are basically the same unit, both are calvary and they do perform the same role, but the hussard is a stronger than the knight in overall, the knight would be catalog as T4 and the Hussard as T5, when the Knight owns his upgrade to Heavy knight, The Heavy knight will be catalog as T5 unit, they would still have a small diference in stats but both get a match in the overall balance (the Heavy knight has more health, armor, and lower cost to produce while the hussard have more sight, speed and spell resist, the diference of them is not really noticeable, only varying from the play style from each person), but if you compare against a centurion, or a vet-crusader, or a hero knight, they would not stand... (i know the vet-crusader and hero knight aren't playable caracthers but for comparasion, they all have the same roles as calvary!) So a lower tier unit is Basically inefficient against the higher TIERs unless they own a role bonus against them...

I will explain this in another perspective based on the AOWW. (if you already get it, just skip this part)

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At WW2 we had inumerous types of infantry, vehicles, aircrafts, ships, but obviously, they aren't the same between them,
I will explain the vehicles part;

On german wehrmacht, the mostly well know vehicles you might know are Panthers and Tigers Tanks, but the germans wheren't only made by the Panther(Medium tank) and the Tiger(Heavy Tank), they own a wider series of armored cars, light tanks, medium tanks, heavy tanks, self-propelled artillerys, tank destroyers, half-tracks, mounted guns, howitzers, AA vehicles, flame tanks, transport vehicles and several other war trinkets... (<<Those are some of the
vehicle roles)

But prior the Tiger and Panther, they had a long series of Panzerkampfwagen units until they do reach those iconic vehicles, starting with the Leichttraktor, then PzKpfw I (with Panzerjäger I ,Sturmpanzer I as variations, one being a tank destroyer and the second being an arty), PzKpfw II, Panzer III... each version had diferent components that make them an entire new variant, making it a tank destroyer, or an arty, an AA vehicle or something else, even on the same panzer II, you can find the Flammpanzer II A und B (flame tank version of pz II), panzer II D, panzer II E, panzer II J, panzer II G, panzer II H... All variants of the same panzer II tank!

Since the war was on going, new and improved units where being added to these roles, some where the same than prior versions or based on them, but every version where made based on the field demands! The same aspect can be put here if you change a few words... Basically become almost the first paragraph of the first post...

("Since we periodically release new units, sometimes units may have and do the same role than others that already have been released with some small or drastic stat/cosmetical changes between them, and also we are always with new cool unit ideas that sometimes are the same than an existing one, in order to catalog things to avoid mess in the future and allow a wider range of content without break the balance...")

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It really seens complex at first but is something that most of veterans already do without notice and that's better if we let it be explicit because isn't everyone that gets it at first... Tier system is like a metric ruler to ensure that the unit fits your role amoung the samelike units without breaking the balance... Currently we could be releasing too strong (overpowered) units that could break the game balance or too weak (broken) units that will never be used... But by making this catalog, really strong units will be considered as high tier units, while the weaker on the lower tiers... we will also be able keep both broken and overpowered units, and also to make "broken vs broken" battles or "overpowered vs overpowered" battles... Opening up a huge variety of content for our beloved game. It will all depends on the max difficulty you want to play.

I guess now it is clear what i mean that it should be, right?

[MightyGuy]

I UNDERSTAND, I Just Suggest.. The Age Of Strategy Version FIRST OR NOW Might Make the Era/Technology/Generation/Upgrade or Civilization System... Like the "Age Of Empire "And" Revival "Game found on Computer and Java Phones..


Benifts Of The Tier or Role:
-Properly Balancing Technologies, Life Based on Reality (Based on Era Type or Age).........

[LordOfAles]

Alright,but who will have nerves to do that lol? And do you think they should be indicated in unit sheet?

[LordOfAles]

I UNDERSTAND, I Just Suggest.. The Age Of Strategy Version FIRST OR NOW Might Make the Era/Technology/Generation/Upgrade or Civilization System... Like the "Age Of Empire "And" Revival "Game found on Computer and Java Phones..


Benifts Of The Tier or Role:
-Properly Balancing Technologies, Life Based on Reality (Based on Era Type or Age).........

We still need many unit and techs for that

[Dagravian]

Alright,but who will have nerves to do that lol? And do you think they should be indicated in unit sheet?

This will be just the beggining of the catalog, everything takes time b4 fully completed, tested and implemented, same for these additions aswell... And we will take some time when separating the ranks for tiers, it will be the slowest part imo... So there's not need to rush yet.

Ofc, the idea is that they are also displayed on the units stats in game if possible! Like this!

**UNIT DESCRIPTION**

Unit name

|_Unit's pic_|

Class = ? <------ Even if it is obvious by the image... It will be good if it is showed what kind of infantry it is, or what kind of cavalry, especially if the player is not familiar with strategy games or RPGs...

Role = ? <------ It shows what the unit does, if he is good against buildings, infantry or cavalry... (This will summarize all those numbers on "Have a bonus against" in 1 or 2 words. Those numbers will stay there, just like "Statistics for Nerds"

Tier = ? <------ What Tier rank the unit belongs to...
Cost = ?
Hp = ?/?
....

Something like this for descriptions (After explaining the terms, the design of the thing seems so simplified)