Age of Strategy Forums

What about change that passive aura into the one that requires activation?

As for unique building — aof has 7 buildings with unique trait: 1 embassy per each race and gemstone mine for dwarves.
So yes it works completely same way.

godOfKings wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:19 pm Also can aura have feature like spells that they cannot b applied when garrisoned? Unit has to b ungarrisoned to use aura so he can b exposed?

In theory you could make them have an ability that gives the aura for 1 turn and removes movement...
The issue with that is: they would still be able to enter in a transport ship(given that they're already in a TC or other building that has more than 1 garrison slot and allows acting from inside), and then you'd have a protected aura again, so I'm not sure if that's completely possible currently. They already can't enter most carriers due to the [Not Carried As Foot] category though, which helps a lot.

makazuwr32 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:16 pm Regarding aura specifically:
I asked stratego about this already but for normal leader units of aof.
He said that for now auras are quite vague things and he can't modify their way of working for now.

What about adding a similar spec to the recently added LOAD_UNLOAD_COSTS_MOVEMENT, but one that instead affects the unit when it enters a carrier, not the other way around, so that they themselves require 1 movement to enter/exit other carriers? Paired with the above idea it would remove the only issue I saw with it and probably make it fully functional.

godOfKings wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 4:25 am We can do the next best thing, since wats really op about coolguy is the +2 range on treb, we can nerf that part instead

My suggestion, remove range increase from aura, only give the other +5 atk and mending bonus to ranged siege units

Make a separate 1 range increase spell, something like advanced siege modification works that improves affected siege unit

Spell range will b 1
Cooldown 2 turns
Cannot b casted while garrisoned
Spell lasts only 1 turn, so basically for that turn only ranged siege unit has +1 range and coolguy cannot use spell next turn

So only one treb can only get 12 maxed range, and that too every 2 turns instead of every turn

Sounds great for me, though I still think their availability and cost would remain too strong, so I think either a cost increase (given the range aura nerf I'd say around cost 7 or 8), an availability decrease (maybe making them only available in castle, or in some new building?), or a combination of both would still be required.

godOfKings wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 4:25 am As for gok hero, i believe i reduced the number of categories that could b affected to mainly, light and medium infantry and cavalry, so i should add it above too i guess, should i also reduce it to culture neutral units only? That would b more appropriate since there aint many culture neutral units that can actually reach op stats like double action winged hussar

I'm not sure if restricting it to culture neutral is the best approach, because it would mean culture neutral balancing would be more dependent on him. I think that if culture neutral is lacking (which, for the most part, it kinda is in late game), then it needs a more direct buff than this.

godOfKings wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 4:45 am Also b2 idea of a separate hero making building kinda like wc3 for making easter egg heroes could also work, along with turn cost changes to balance them, the building itself could also b unique for player so player can build only once, does unique attribute work for building same way it works for producing units?

Infact, the building itself could also b an easter egg unit lol, may b hidden in one of the tutorial maps, with no initial clue whatsoever, or the clue is, All first time players have crossed path with this unique building, those who have open eyes will notice it.

Ofcourse this idea will still have to b put on hold for now

That would be great too, and it being an easter egg itself would be very cool

godOfKings wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 4:33 am There i changed the categories now it should b pretty balanced without any of the units that can get op stats to b able to further benefit from this hero, also added mercenaries as exception

i think with this both heroes r pretty balanced and even if spammed a lot they shouldnt do too big op things in actual mp games, so just with currently being unique they can still b playable, wat do u think @b2198 @Endru1241

I'd personally do some other changes there:

1. Following my points up there, increase the cost of both GoK and CG to 7 or 8
2. Make them less available than now (so requiring a factory to train, not any TC)
3. To make things a little more standardized, I'd give it [Very Agile Defense] category
4. Same reasoning as above, increase armor to 12/8 (as it's more focused on melee than CoolGuy)
5. Increase its attack to 13 to be closer to that of actual cavalry
6. Give it Shield-Knight-like bonuses
7. Add a 3 turn cooldown on Great General's Charge. Reasoning is that it should be a very impactful tactical ability, not a permanent buff you use every turn to keep it on.
8. Change categories affected by Great General's Charge to: [Melee][Flesh and blood]. With the cooldown, I don't think it needs to be restricted to just that subset of units that it was before
9. Reduce cooldown of Wedge formation strike to 1. The unit will and should be the main focus while on the frontlines, so it probably won't last for long, and this will help punish better those that do ignore it for too long. Also, with the changes below, I think it should be ok.
10. Change damage of Wedge formation strike to -3 hp {deflected by armor} Stronger with Attack(*) (in practice, it will start at 16, but can be buffed up to 21 with high morale + fervor + bfld. blacksmith)
11. Unsure on this one, but maybe we should give both GoK and CG the [Leader] category? That would make them more vulnerable against assassins and lasiq assassins (and they both act as sort of special leaders, CG to siege units and GoK to an offensive infantry/cavalry army, without the usual abilities and auras of other leaders and with some very unique ones of their own). Or maybe add a new category, [Hero], or something like that, to group these Easter Egg leaders, and add bonuses against them accordingly? (or maybe maybe just rename [Very Agile Defence] and add more bonuses against it, as I have no clue what that name is supposed to mean in-game lol)
12. Maybe CoolGuy should be [Misc] instead of [Melee], since his focus is in siege warfare instead of direct combat? That would only change a few minor counters, so I think would be a minor change overall. Though there's the argument that inquisitor is [Melee], so I'm not sure there...
13. Similarly to above, but a little bit more impactful, both GoK and CG could be categorized as [Support], since they... uh... supports units (and all leaders, buffers and debuffers are categorized as such, even zerks).

Um, can u do it like this, similar to how i wrote stats for gok can u write stats for both gok and coolguy according to the format of unit info in aos, with ur suggestions, that will make it easier for me to understand all the changes u suggested, sorry for the hassle lol

Btw my idea for ee building is 2x2 castle called The Castle of AOS, it will have the aos icon flag on top that ee stratego has

Description: The legendary castle where the heroes of aos reside. But to invite them to your cause you must first find them and pass their trials. Can you find them all?

Also idea for finding is first tutorial map with movement control, in any of the locations where player isnt normally supposed to go, but can find it easy if he likes to explore, clicking it will immediately unlock it using cond: object selected by player. Finding this castle is easy but finding other ee heroes will b tough

godOfKings wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:07 pm Um, can u do it like this, similar to how i wrote stats for gok can u write stats for both gok and coolguy according to the format of unit info in aos, with ur suggestions, that will make it easier for me to understand all the changes u suggested, sorry for the hassle lol

Ok, here it goes (and with a few more changes I just thought about):

CoolGuy:
Cost 8
Hp 20
Attack 9
Range 1
Armor 8
P. Armor 11
Speed 3
Sight 4
Action 1
Mend rate 30
Heal aff. 25%
Mental Resistance 200%
Size 1x1
Builders: The Castle of AoS
Specs: Inconvertible, No attack if garrisoned, Shared Unique unit (1 per player, shared with other units with this spec), Can not build, Can not Construct
Categories: [Misc], [Flesh and blood], [Foot], [Hero], [Support], [Not Carried as Foot], [Repairer]
Bonuses: none
Auras and effects:

• Siege Bonus Aura: range 1; chance 100%; Aura on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; gives Siege Bonus effect:
  • Siege Bonus: groups: tactical; chance 100%; Continuous on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Multipliable effect; effect on target: +200% mend aff., +100% resistance, +20% power [[Ranged][Siege machine]]
• Melee Siege Bonus Aura: range 2; chance 100%; Aura on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; gives Melee Siege Bonus effect:
  • Melee Siege Bonus: groups: tactical; chance 100%; Continuous on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Multipliable effect; effect on target: +200% mend aff., +100% resistance, +10 armor +80% power [[Impact][Siege machine]]

Abilities:

• Specialized Siege Overload: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 2; cooldown 3; groups: physical; lasts turns 2; Lasting on Ally, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect, Removes all effects(structural); effect on target: +1 speed, +40% power, +2 range [[Siege machine]], is a weapon effect that applies Overloaded Shot:
  • Overloaded Shot: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 2; cooldown -; groups: structural; lasts turns 2; Lasting on Self, non-Multipliable effect, Removes all effects(physical), Negative Effect; effect on target: -15 range, -40 attack, -10 armor, -10 p. armor, -10 speed

This will keep the +2 range, but will make it way more of a decision that the situation demands rather than a permanent buff to a bunch of trebuchets, as it now has a cooldown, a rather big downside after firing, and the ability itself can also be used to slightly boost the speed of rams, siege towers, etc. for 2 turns. The change to percentage will also make him more useful with cannons (as currently the +5 is not very useful for something that already deals 22 base damage, but is currently a lot more useful for hwachas and trebs, as they have a much lower base damage, so this will even out a bit his utility across those units), and with the possible upcoming bombard, that might be something to consider. And shifting a bunch of his power to its active ability, it makes his usage require a bit more careful planning, more in line with how siege battles work in the game, instead of just placing him near the bulk of your siege weaponry and calling it a day. Also making him able to repair stuff makes sense for me too, as an extra role while he's not using his ability to not just sit there doing nothing.


God of Kings:
cost 8
Hp 30
Attack 13
Range 1
Armor 12
P. Armor 9
Speed 5
Sight 5
Action 1
Heal aff. 40%
Size 1x1
Builders: The Castle of AoS
Specs: Inconvertible, No attack if garrisoned, Shared Unique unit (1 per player, shared with other units with this spec)
Categories: [Melee], [Flesh and blood], [Mounted], [Hero], [Support]
Bonuses:

• +20% against [Light Infantry]
• +40% against
  • [Ranged][Flesh and blood]
  • [Medium Infantry]
  • [Irregular Infantry]
  • [Siege machine]
• +60% against [Heavy Infantry]
• +80% against [Armored Siege Machine]

Auras and effects: none
Abilities:

• Start Great General's Charge: chance 100%; range 0; timeout Instant; cooldown 4; groups: mental; lasts turns 0; Instant on Self, Ignores Spell resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; Effect on target: [[Hero]] gives the Great General's Charge Aura:
  • Great General's Charge Aura: chance 100%; range 3; timeout 1; cooldown -; Aura range 3; groups: mental; lasts turns: 1; Aura on Ally, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; applies Great General's Charge and Fatigue effects:
    • Great General's Charge: chance 100%; range 0; timeout Instant; cooldown -; groups: mental; Continuous on Ally, Non-Multipliable effect; effect on target: +9 power, +100% resistance, +100% heal aff., +4 speed [[Melee][Flesh and blood]]
    • Fatigue: chance 100%; range 0; timeout 2; cooldown -; groups: physical; lasts turns: 2; Continuous on Ally, Non-Multipliable effect, Negative Effect; effect on target: -4 power, -2 speed [[Melee][Flesh and blood]]
• Perform Wedge Formation Strike: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 1; cooldown 1; Affect range: 1 (75%/distance); lasts turns; 1; Instant on enemy, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non Multipliable effect; effect on target: [-[Flesh and blood] -[Construct]] applies effect Wedge Formation Strike:
  • Wedge Formation Strike: chance 100%; range 1; timeout Instant; cooldown -; lasts turns 0; Instant on Enemy, Ignores Spell resistance, Negative Effect, Stronger with Attack(*), Non-Multipliable effect; effect on target: -3 Hp{Deflected by armor} [-Flesh and blood] -[Construct]]

And similar idea here, allowing Great General's Charge to give +2 speed, but giving it some downsides after using (and in this case, a downside for all units that were affected by it, though not as huge as the CoolGuy one, because these units will in theory already be on the enemy lines at that point, so no need to make them THAT vulnerable). And in case of GoK, there's basically no passive strength he gives to other units at all, so it's all tactical decisions (and all focused on offensive manouvers).

Btw @Endru1241, are the "Overloaded Shot" and "Fatigue" effects I suggested up there even possible?

godOfKings wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:07 pm Btw my idea for ee building is 2x2 castle called The Castle of AOS, it will have the aos icon flag on top that ee stratego has

Description: The legendary castle where the heroes of aos reside. But to invite them to your cause you must first find them and pass their trials. Can you find them all?

Also idea for finding is first tutorial map with movement control, in any of the locations where player isnt normally supposed to go, but can find it easy if he likes to explore, clicking it will immediately unlock it using cond: object selected by player. Finding this castle is easy but finding other ee heroes will b tough

Nice, I like it.

I honestly have no opinion on the stats themselves, my only requirements r basically, hero must b unique, balanced, and players can have fun unlocking new ee heroes all over aos, as well as the recognition the contributors themselves can get from having their representation

Although the drawbacks can basically b a double edged sword, op first, then waiting for death, except if the opness was successful

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am Specs: Inconvertible, No attack if garrisoned, Shared Unique unit (1 per player, shared with other units with this spec), Can not build, Can not Construct

It's a code change request.

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am Auras and effects:

• Siege Bonus Aura: range 1; chance 100%; Aura on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; gives Siege Bonus effect:
  • Siege Bonus: groups: tactical; chance 100%; Continuous on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Multipliable effect; effect on target: +200% mend aff., +100% resistance, +20% power [[Ranged][Siege machine]]
• Melee Siege Bonus Aura: range 2; chance 100%; Aura on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; gives Melee Siege Bonus effect:
  • Melee Siege Bonus: groups: tactical; chance 100%; Continuous on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Multipliable effect; effect on target: +200% mend aff., +100% resistance, +10 armor +80% power [[Impact][Siege machine]]

It would require code change request.
Tere is only HP percentage right now, power percentage doesn't exist.

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am Abilities:

• Specialized Siege Overload: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 2; cooldown 3; groups: physical; lasts turns 2; Lasting on Ally, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect, Removes all effects(structural); effect on target: +1 speed, +40% power, +2 range [[Siege machine]], is a weapon effect that applies Overloaded Shot:
  • Overloaded Shot: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 2; cooldown -; groups: structural; lasts turns 2; Lasting on Self, non-Multipliable effect, Removes all effects(physical), Negative Effect; effect on target: -15 range, -40 attack, -10 armor, -10 p. armor, -10 speed

+2 range here would make rams have 3 range.
Weapon effect cannot be applied on self, as target is centered on a tile unit attacks.
There would be a way to overcome it - by applying negative effect first with -x and then applying positive with +x+y, that overcomes negative effect and gives exact +y total and e.g. is removed on attack, but it would look horrible - be really confusing to players.

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am This will keep the +2 range, but will make it way more of a decision that the situation demands rather than a permanent buff to a bunch of trebuchets, as it now has a cooldown, a rather big downside after firing, and the ability itself can also be used to slightly boost the speed of rams, siege towers, etc. for 2 turns. The change to percentage will also make him more useful with cannons (as currently the +5 is not very useful for something that already deals 22 base damage, but is currently a lot more useful for hwachas and trebs, as they have a much lower base damage, so this will even out a bit his utility across those units), and with the possible upcoming bombard, that might be something to consider. And shifting a bunch of his power to its active ability, it makes his usage require a bit more careful planning, more in line with how siege battles work in the game, instead of just placing him near the bulk of your siege weaponry and calling it a day. Also making him able to repair stuff makes sense for me too, as an extra role while he's not using his ability to not just sit there doing nothing.

Repair is interesting idea, although the summary of cost + unique building requirement, which can be used to produce only 1 unit at a time would make entry cost so high, that I doubt much usefulness.
Ability is too complicated - both in implementation and for players to understand it quickly.
Percentage attack boost is impossible in the current engine, which was probably stated multiple times.

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am
God of Kings:
cost 8
Hp 30
Attack 13
Range 1
Armor 12
P. Armor 9
Speed 5
Sight 5
Action 1
Heal aff. 40%
Size 1x1
Builders: The Castle of AoS
Specs: Inconvertible, No attack if garrisoned, Shared Unique unit (1 per player, shared with other units with this spec)
Categories: [Melee], [Flesh and blood], [Mounted], [Hero], [Support]
Bonuses:

• +20% against [Light Infantry]
• +40% against
  • [Ranged][Flesh and blood]
  • [Medium Infantry]
  • [Irregular Infantry]
  • [Siege machine]
• +60% against [Heavy Infantry]
• +80% against [Armored Siege Machine]

Even with high cost - I'd prefer to avoid any easter egg units being usable as attacker unit by itself.
This stats make it so.
15 attack with full bonuses, 30 hp and 14/11 armors along with no cavalry category makes it hard to counter.
There is no specific counters like scouts without special category.

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am Auras and effects: none
Abilities:

• Start Great General's Charge: chance 100%; range 0; timeout Instant; cooldown 4; groups: mental; lasts turns 0; Instant on Self, Ignores Spell resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; Effect on target: [[Hero]] gives the Great General's Charge Aura:
  • Great General's Charge Aura: chance 100%; range 3; timeout 1; cooldown -; Aura range 3; groups: mental; lasts turns: 1; Aura on Ally, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; applies Great General's Charge and Fatigue effects:
    • Great General's Charge: chance 100%; range 0; timeout Instant; cooldown -; groups: mental; Continuous on Ally, Non-Multipliable effect; effect on target: +9 power, +100% resistance, +100% heal aff., +4 speed [[Melee][Flesh and blood]]
    • Fatigue: chance 100%; range 0; timeout 2; cooldown -; groups: physical; lasts turns: 2; Continuous on Ally, Non-Multipliable effect, Negative Effect; effect on target: -4 power, -2 speed [[Melee][Flesh and blood]]
• Perform Wedge Formation Strike: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 1; cooldown 1; Affect range: 1 (75%/distance); lasts turns; 1; Instant on enemy, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non Multipliable effect; effect on target: [-[Flesh and blood] -[Construct]] applies effect Wedge Formation Strike:
  • Wedge Formation Strike: chance 100%; range 1; timeout Instant; cooldown -; lasts turns 0; Instant on Enemy, Ignores Spell resistance, Negative Effect, Stronger with Attack(*), Non-Multipliable effect; effect on target: -3 Hp{Deflected by armor} [-Flesh and blood] -[Construct]]

Charge is possible along with fatigue, but not as aura. Aura can only apply instant or continuous under aura range effects.
Would be possible as aoe buff if charge would have timeout too (or be removed after attack), although not sure if it shouldn't be the other way arround - fatigue applied first and charge main as related effect which resolves faster.
But aoe buffs should have some animation of usage and it's hell to make.
Like above with Coolguy - I feel like it's not really that much intuitive to player.

Wedge Formation Strike here is OP. More than 2017 catapults OP.
39-45 melee damage on first target and additionally 29-33 damage on adjacent targets.
Apart of some huge hp units - all else perishes.

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am And similar idea here, allowing Great General's Charge to give +2 speed, but giving it some downsides after using (and in this case, a downside for all units that were affected by it, though not as huge as the CoolGuy one, because these units will in theory already be on the enemy lines at that point, so no need to make them THAT vulnerable). And in case of GoK, there's basically no passive strength he gives to other units at all, so it's all tactical decisions (and all focused on offensive manouvers).

Too strong base stats in general - it doesn't need to give any boosts if it can kill all by itself.
And no cooldown aoe wipeout.
Strongly encourages to use siege towers and buildings, as they do have high hp.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am Specs: Inconvertible, No attack if garrisoned, Shared Unique unit (1 per player, shared with other units with this spec), Can not build, Can not Construct

It's a code change request.

Yup.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am Auras and effects:

• Siege Bonus Aura: range 1; chance 100%; Aura on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; gives Siege Bonus effect:
  • Siege Bonus: groups: tactical; chance 100%; Continuous on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Multipliable effect; effect on target: +200% mend aff., +100% resistance, +20% power [[Ranged][Siege machine]]
• Melee Siege Bonus Aura: range 2; chance 100%; Aura on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; gives Melee Siege Bonus effect:
  • Melee Siege Bonus: groups: tactical; chance 100%; Continuous on Ally and/or Self, Ignores Spell Resistance, Multipliable effect; effect on target: +200% mend aff., +100% resistance, +10 armor +80% power [[Impact][Siege machine]]

It would require code change request.
Tere is only HP percentage right now, power percentage doesn't exist.

Oh, would have to rethink that part then before we got that.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am Abilities:

• Specialized Siege Overload: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 2; cooldown 3; groups: physical; lasts turns 2; Lasting on Ally, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect, Removes all effects(structural); effect on target: +1 speed, +40% power, +2 range [[Siege machine]], is a weapon effect that applies Overloaded Shot:
  • Overloaded Shot: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 2; cooldown -; groups: structural; lasts turns 2; Lasting on Self, non-Multipliable effect, Removes all effects(physical), Negative Effect; effect on target: -15 range, -40 attack, -10 armor, -10 p. armor, -10 speed

+2 range here would make rams have 3 range.
Weapon effect cannot be applied on self, as target is centered on a tile unit attacks.
There would be a way to overcome it - by applying negative effect first with -x and then applying positive with +x+y, that overcomes negative effect and gives exact +y total and e.g. is removed on attack, but it would look horrible - be really confusing to players.

Right, forgot about range on rams. Maybe that should be split into 2 abilities instead, 1 for ranged siege and another for melee siege.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am This will keep the +2 range, but will make it way more of a decision that the situation demands rather than a permanent buff to a bunch of trebuchets, as it now has a cooldown, a rather big downside after firing, and the ability itself can also be used to slightly boost the speed of rams, siege towers, etc. for 2 turns. The change to percentage will also make him more useful with cannons (as currently the +5 is not very useful for something that already deals 22 base damage, but is currently a lot more useful for hwachas and trebs, as they have a much lower base damage, so this will even out a bit his utility across those units), and with the possible upcoming bombard, that might be something to consider. And shifting a bunch of his power to its active ability, it makes his usage require a bit more careful planning, more in line with how siege battles work in the game, instead of just placing him near the bulk of your siege weaponry and calling it a day. Also making him able to repair stuff makes sense for me too, as an extra role while he's not using his ability to not just sit there doing nothing.

Repair is interesting idea, although the summary of cost + unique building requirement, which can be used to produce only 1 unit at a time would make entry cost so high, that I doubt much usefulness.
Ability is too complicated - both in implementation and for players to understand it quickly.
Percentage attack boost is impossible in the current engine, which was probably stated multiple times.

Yeah, repair is not meant to be the main usefulness, but just to give him something to do while not using the abilities, instead of just sitting there giving the auras.
Would splitting the ability into 2, one for melee siege and another for ranged siege, be enough to simplify both?
Yeah, would have to rethink the attack boost.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am
God of Kings:
cost 8
Hp 30
Attack 13
Range 1
Armor 12
P. Armor 9
Speed 5
Sight 5
Action 1
Heal aff. 40%
Size 1x1
Builders: The Castle of AoS
Specs: Inconvertible, No attack if garrisoned, Shared Unique unit (1 per player, shared with other units with this spec)
Categories: [Melee], [Flesh and blood], [Mounted], [Hero], [Support]
Bonuses:

• +20% against [Light Infantry]
• +40% against
  • [Ranged][Flesh and blood]
  • [Medium Infantry]
  • [Irregular Infantry]
  • [Siege machine]
• +60% against [Heavy Infantry]
• +80% against [Armored Siege Machine]

Even with high cost - I'd prefer to avoid any easter egg units being usable as attacker unit by itself.
This stats make it so.
15 attack with full bonuses, 30 hp and 14/11 armors along with no cavalry category makes it hard to counter.
There is no specific counters like scouts without special category.

The special category would be the [Hero] category, which I'm proposing as just a name change for [Very Agile Defence], since the latter doesn't really make much sense imo. So scouts, rangers, ninjas and rams would have increased damage against him, and with the [Support] category, lasiq assassin and assassin would also have bonuses against him.
I also don't understand why they shouldn't be allowed to be attacking units by themselves...

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am Auras and effects: none
Abilities:

• Start Great General's Charge: chance 100%; range 0; timeout Instant; cooldown 4; groups: mental; lasts turns 0; Instant on Self, Ignores Spell resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; Effect on target: [[Hero]] gives the Great General's Charge Aura:
  • Great General's Charge Aura: chance 100%; range 3; timeout 1; cooldown -; Aura range 3; groups: mental; lasts turns: 1; Aura on Ally, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; applies Great General's Charge and Fatigue effects:
    • Great General's Charge: chance 100%; range 0; timeout Instant; cooldown -; groups: mental; Continuous on Ally, Non-Multipliable effect; effect on target: +9 power, +100% resistance, +100% heal aff., +4 speed [[Melee][Flesh and blood]]
    • Fatigue: chance 100%; range 0; timeout 2; cooldown -; groups: physical; lasts turns: 2; Continuous on Ally, Non-Multipliable effect, Negative Effect; effect on target: -4 power, -2 speed [[Melee][Flesh and blood]]
• Perform Wedge Formation Strike: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 1; cooldown 1; Affect range: 1 (75%/distance); lasts turns; 1; Instant on enemy, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non Multipliable effect; effect on target: [-[Flesh and blood] -[Construct]] applies effect Wedge Formation Strike:
  • Wedge Formation Strike: chance 100%; range 1; timeout Instant; cooldown -; lasts turns 0; Instant on Enemy, Ignores Spell resistance, Negative Effect, Stronger with Attack(*), Non-Multipliable effect; effect on target: -3 Hp{Deflected by armor} [-Flesh and blood] -[Construct]]

Charge is possible along with fatigue, but not as aura. Aura can only apply instant or continuous under aura range effects.
Would be possible as aoe buff if charge would have timeout too (or be removed after attack), although not sure if it shouldn't be the other way arround - fatigue applied first and charge main as related effect which resolves faster.
But aoe buffs should have some animation of usage and it's hell to make.
Like above with Coolguy - I feel like it's not really that much intuitive to player.

I agree that it would be more intuitive to have fatigue only be applied after moving and/or attacking, but I don't think it's that unintuitive the way it is. Though there still remains the problem of making the aoe buff animation...

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm Wedge Formation Strike here is OP. More than 2017 catapults OP.
39-45 melee damage on first target and additionally 29-33 damage on adjacent targets.
Apart of some huge hp units - all else perishes.

How so? Wouldn't it cause 16-21 damage on primary target and 12-16 damage to adjacent targets? Or did I understand something wrong with how Stronger with Attack(*) works?

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am And similar idea here, allowing Great General's Charge to give +2 speed, but giving it some downsides after using (and in this case, a downside for all units that were affected by it, though not as huge as the CoolGuy one, because these units will in theory already be on the enemy lines at that point, so no need to make them THAT vulnerable). And in case of GoK, there's basically no passive strength he gives to other units at all, so it's all tactical decisions (and all focused on offensive manouvers).

Too strong base stats in general - it doesn't need to give any boosts if it can kill all by itself.
And no cooldown aoe wipeout.
Strongly encourages to use siege towers and buildings, as they do have high hp.

Has A LOT of counters
Is considerably hard to heal
The aoe has 1 turn cooldown and unless I misunderstood something there, doesn't deal a damage that high for a cavalry
Also... I forgot to add another category, [Horse], so that camels, dromedarii and turtle machines can counter it too

b2198 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:51 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am Abilities:

• Specialized Siege Overload: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 2; cooldown 3; groups: physical; lasts turns 2; Lasting on Ally, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect, Removes all effects(structural); effect on target: +1 speed, +40% power, +2 range [[Siege machine]], is a weapon effect that applies Overloaded Shot:
  • Overloaded Shot: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 2; cooldown -; groups: structural; lasts turns 2; Lasting on Self, non-Multipliable effect, Removes all effects(physical), Negative Effect; effect on target: -15 range, -40 attack, -10 armor, -10 p. armor, -10 speed

+2 range here would make rams have 3 range.
Weapon effect cannot be applied on self, as target is centered on a tile unit attacks.
There would be a way to overcome it - by applying negative effect first with -x and then applying positive with +x+y, that overcomes negative effect and gives exact +y total and e.g. is removed on attack, but it would look horrible - be really confusing to players.

Right, forgot about range on rams. Maybe that should be split into 2 abilities instead, 1 for ranged siege and another for melee siege.

That increases workload almost twice.

b2198 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:51 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am This will keep the +2 range, but will make it way more of a decision that the situation demands rather than a permanent buff to a bunch of trebuchets, as it now has a cooldown, a rather big downside after firing, and the ability itself can also be used to slightly boost the speed of rams, siege towers, etc. for 2 turns. The change to percentage will also make him more useful with cannons (as currently the +5 is not very useful for something that already deals 22 base damage, but is currently a lot more useful for hwachas and trebs, as they have a much lower base damage, so this will even out a bit his utility across those units), and with the possible upcoming bombard, that might be something to consider. And shifting a bunch of his power to its active ability, it makes his usage require a bit more careful planning, more in line with how siege battles work in the game, instead of just placing him near the bulk of your siege weaponry and calling it a day. Also making him able to repair stuff makes sense for me too, as an extra role while he's not using his ability to not just sit there doing nothing.

Repair is interesting idea, although the summary of cost + unique building requirement, which can be used to produce only 1 unit at a time would make entry cost so high, that I doubt much usefulness.
Ability is too complicated - both in implementation and for players to understand it quickly.
Percentage attack boost is impossible in the current engine, which was probably stated multiple times.

Yeah, repair is not meant to be the main usefulness, but just to give him something to do while not using the abilities, instead of just sitting there giving the auras.
Would splitting the ability into 2, one for melee siege and another for ranged siege, be enough to simplify both?
Yeah, would have to rethink the attack boost.

The other way around - splitting complicates things even more in implementation and is not really making anything easier for player.
Just the fact, that player sees something like -10 speed, -10 range, -10 power, thinking it's some bug or something and then ONLY if he notices related effect with +11 speed, +11 range, + 11 power and ALSO adds the two together in mind - he can see real effect.

b2198 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:51 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am
God of Kings:
cost 8
Hp 30
Attack 13
Range 1
Armor 12
P. Armor 9
Speed 5
Sight 5
Action 1
Heal aff. 40%
Size 1x1
Builders: The Castle of AoS
Specs: Inconvertible, No attack if garrisoned, Shared Unique unit (1 per player, shared with other units with this spec)
Categories: [Melee], [Flesh and blood], [Mounted], [Hero], [Support]
Bonuses:

• +20% against [Light Infantry]
• +40% against
  • [Ranged][Flesh and blood]
  • [Medium Infantry]
  • [Irregular Infantry]
  • [Siege machine]
• +60% against [Heavy Infantry]
• +80% against [Armored Siege Machine]

Even with high cost - I'd prefer to avoid any easter egg units being usable as attacker unit by itself.
This stats make it so.
15 attack with full bonuses, 30 hp and 14/11 armors along with no cavalry category makes it hard to counter.
There is no specific counters like scouts without special category.

The special category would be the [Hero] category, which I'm proposing as just a name change for [Very Agile Defence], since the latter doesn't really make much sense imo. So scouts, rangers, ninjas and rams would have increased damage against him, and with the [Support] category, lasiq assassin and assassin would also have bonuses against him.
I also don't understand why they shouldn't be allowed to be attacking units by themselves...

It made sense for specific set of counters, it is applied to.
[Hero] is undefined and hard to argument for - why would the bonuses come from.
As for why I say hard to counter - I'd advice you to check even one of them real final damage though.
[Mounted] gets from e.g. From spearman it's 5*(100%+60%)+5, so 13 damage vs 12 armor, so exactly 1. Great counter.
Invested Halberdier gives 7 *(100%+60%) + 7 damage, so 18 damage vs 12 armor - only 6 damage - 20% hp.
Oh, and it can be further boosted with blacksmith techs.
Scout gives 16 damage with bonuses vs 12 armor, so 4 hp dealt. ~13%
Mentioned lasiq assasin 5*(100%+150%) = 12. 12 vs 12 armor. 1 hp.

And we are speaking about 5 speed unit, capable to have speed boosted by fresh horses, having 30 hp.
Plus adequate attack similar to late game cavalier, along with proper bonuses.

And it's not, that I am against ability to attack.
I am against them to have adequate attack comparable to proper lategame unit.
Do we assume - it's actually some sort of super elite whole unit (20-50 knights!) - all with such powerful armor?

b2198 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:51 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am Auras and effects: none
Abilities:

• Start Great General's Charge: chance 100%; range 0; timeout Instant; cooldown 4; groups: mental; lasts turns 0; Instant on Self, Ignores Spell resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; Effect on target: [[Hero]] gives the Great General's Charge Aura:
  • Great General's Charge Aura: chance 100%; range 3; timeout 1; cooldown -; Aura range 3; groups: mental; lasts turns: 1; Aura on Ally, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non-Multipliable effect; applies Great General's Charge and Fatigue effects:
    • Great General's Charge: chance 100%; range 0; timeout Instant; cooldown -; groups: mental; Continuous on Ally, Non-Multipliable effect; effect on target: +9 power, +100% resistance, +100% heal aff., +4 speed [[Melee][Flesh and blood]]
    • Fatigue: chance 100%; range 0; timeout 2; cooldown -; groups: physical; lasts turns: 2; Continuous on Ally, Non-Multipliable effect, Negative Effect; effect on target: -4 power, -2 speed [[Melee][Flesh and blood]]
• Perform Wedge Formation Strike: chance 100%; range 1; timeout 1; cooldown 1; Affect range: 1 (75%/distance); lasts turns; 1; Instant on enemy, Ignores Spell Resistance, Non Multipliable effect; effect on target: [-[Flesh and blood] -[Construct]] applies effect Wedge Formation Strike:
  • Wedge Formation Strike: chance 100%; range 1; timeout Instant; cooldown -; lasts turns 0; Instant on Enemy, Ignores Spell resistance, Negative Effect, Stronger with Attack(*), Non-Multipliable effect; effect on target: -3 Hp{Deflected by armor} [-Flesh and blood] -[Construct]]

Charge is possible along with fatigue, but not as aura. Aura can only apply instant or continuous under aura range effects.
Would be possible as aoe buff if charge would have timeout too (or be removed after attack), although not sure if it shouldn't be the other way arround - fatigue applied first and charge main as related effect which resolves faster.
But aoe buffs should have some animation of usage and it's hell to make.
Like above with Coolguy - I feel like it's not really that much intuitive to player.

I agree that it would be more intuitive to have fatigue only be applied after moving and/or attacking, but I don't think it's that unintuitive the way it is. Though there still remains the problem of making the aoe buff animation...

Un-intuitive part here is not the order it is applied, but rather what I mentioned above - exact buff value is not seen and has to be calculated (after understanding it first)

b2198 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:51 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm Wedge Formation Strike here is OP. More than 2017 catapults OP.
39-45 melee damage on first target and additionally 29-33 damage on adjacent targets.
Apart of some huge hp units - all else perishes.

How so? Wouldn't it cause 16-21 damage on primary target and 12-16 damage to adjacent targets? Or did I understand something wrong with how Stronger with Attack(*) works?

It multiplies value stated by attackPower stat of unit.
So I guess you thought it is adding?
That's Stronger with Attack(+) - I don't think we used it anywhere in AoS yet.

b2198 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:51 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm

b2198 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:17 am And similar idea here, allowing Great General's Charge to give +2 speed, but giving it some downsides after using (and in this case, a downside for all units that were affected by it, though not as huge as the CoolGuy one, because these units will in theory already be on the enemy lines at that point, so no need to make them THAT vulnerable). And in case of GoK, there's basically no passive strength he gives to other units at all, so it's all tactical decisions (and all focused on offensive manouvers).

Too strong base stats in general - it doesn't need to give any boosts if it can kill all by itself.
And no cooldown aoe wipeout.
Strongly encourages to use siege towers and buildings, as they do have high hp.

Has A LOT of counters
Is considerably hard to heal
The aoe has 1 turn cooldown and unless I misunderstood something there, doesn't deal a damage that high for a cavalry
Also... I forgot to add another category, [Horse], so that camels, dromedarii and turtle machines can counter it too

A lot of units set as counters, but with damage insufficient to really call them counters.
They could only counter properly with full techs and buffs.
Camels and turtle machines would work though (btw. I would like to move turtle machines along with ornithopter to being fun units - yes I know I have added turtle machine myself, but it would be better that way).

If we assume making the building costs 14 turns by ambidextria worker so 4 worker finishes in 4 turns, then another 8 turns to make gok or any other hero, total turn cost to make him would b 15- 20 turns depending on starting tc condition

I would choose for gok like 10/8 armor, and bonus on category can b balanced with other ee heroes while he also gets bonus damage from other mounted counters

Damaging ability can b 2* attack power

Charge spell can b 0 range with 5 power range then, a cool animation like a fiery light shining from above, or a flag being raised with fire around, may b i will try something

Btw i think fatigue can also b applied as weapon effect only after unit attacks so charge doesnt need to show double the actual stat buffs

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:37 am

b2198 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:51 pm Right, forgot about range on rams. Maybe that should be split into 2 abilities instead, 1 for ranged siege and another for melee siege.

That increases workload almost twice.

b2198 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:51 pm Yeah, repair is not meant to be the main usefulness, but just to give him something to do while not using the abilities, instead of just sitting there giving the auras.
Would splitting the ability into 2, one for melee siege and another for ranged siege, be enough to simplify both?
Yeah, would have to rethink the attack boost.

The other way around - splitting complicates things even more in implementation and is not really making anything easier for player.
Just the fact, that player sees something like -10 speed, -10 range, -10 power, thinking it's some bug or something and then ONLY if he notices related effect with +11 speed, +11 range, + 11 power and ALSO adds the two together in mind - he can see real effect.

I see your point now, fair enough.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:37 am

b2198 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:51 pm The special category would be the [Hero] category, which I'm proposing as just a name change for [Very Agile Defence], since the latter doesn't really make much sense imo. So scouts, rangers, ninjas and rams would have increased damage against him, and with the [Support] category, lasiq assassin and assassin would also have bonuses against him.
I also don't understand why they shouldn't be allowed to be attacking units by themselves...

It made sense for specific set of counters, it is applied to.
[Hero] is undefined and hard to argument for - why would the bonuses come from.
As for why I say hard to counter - I'd advice you to check even one of them real final damage though.
[Mounted] gets from e.g. From spearman it's 5*(100%+60%)+5, so 13 damage vs 12 armor, so exactly 1. Great counter.
Invested Halberdier gives 7 *(100%+60%) + 7 damage, so 18 damage vs 12 armor - only 6 damage - 20% hp.
Oh, and it can be further boosted with blacksmith techs.
Scout gives 16 damage with bonuses vs 12 armor, so 4 hp dealt. ~13%
Mentioned lasiq assasin 5*(100%+150%) = 12. 12 vs 12 armor. 1 hp.

And we are speaking about 5 speed unit, capable to have speed boosted by fresh horses, having 30 hp.
Plus adequate attack similar to late game cavalier, along with proper bonuses.

And it's not, that I am against ability to attack.
I am against them to have adequate attack comparable to proper lategame unit.
Do we assume - it's actually some sort of super elite whole unit (20-50 knights!) - all with such powerful armor?

But since the unit itself doesn't scale with blacksmith (actually, re-checking now I saw I forgot that for melee damage it only requires [Melee] category, so it would need the [No Weapon Upgrade] category too, mb) or any other tech (apart from fervor), and can only get stronger through auras, then it should already be in its late-game form, which makes these unupgraded and unbuffed counters not really effective, yes. But who would have all of them unupgraded at the point this unit would come into play, since it requires a specifc mega + 8 more turns? Maybe if those requirements to train it aren't enough then ee units could be locked behind a tech also researched in said mega?

In comparison, those units (and a few more) when (base stats/fully buffed/fully upgraded/both):
Halberdier: 18/26/21/29 raw damage OR 6/14/9/17 damage vs base armor OR 4/12/7/15 damage vs max armor
Elite Scout: 19/19/19/19 raw damage OR 7/7/7/7 damage vs base armor OR 5/5/5/5 damage vs max armor (which, ok, isn't that much, but still, 6 of them could kill him, and each costs only 1 turn)
Lasiq Assassin: 12/20/27/35 raw damage OR 1/8/15/23 damage vs base armor OR 1/6/13/21 damage vs max armor
Assassin: 12/25/17/30 raw damage OR 1/13/5/18 damage vs base armor OR 1/11/3/16 damage vs max armor (or yk, 66 damage with its ability XD)
Ninja: 20x2/32x2/25x2/37x2 raw damage OR 8x2/20x2/13x2/25x2 damage vs base armor OR 6x2/18x2/11x2/23x2 damage vs max armor (which actually might be too much? )
Ninja backstab: 30/48/37/56 raw damage OR 18/36/25/44 damage vs base armor OR 16/34/23/42 damage vs max armor (which actually might be too much too? )
Elite Flailman: 14/(16+6)x2/16/(18+6)x2 damage (which is also too much? )
Northern Axe Thrower: 9/9+6/12/12+6 damage

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:37 am Un-intuitive part here is not the order it is applied, but rather what I mentioned above - exact buff value is not seen and has to be calculated (after understanding it first)

I see.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:37 am

b2198 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:51 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:41 pm Wedge Formation Strike here is OP. More than 2017 catapults OP.
39-45 melee damage on first target and additionally 29-33 damage on adjacent targets.
Apart of some huge hp units - all else perishes.

How so? Wouldn't it cause 16-21 damage on primary target and 12-16 damage to adjacent targets? Or did I understand something wrong with how Stronger with Attack(*) works?

It multiplies value stated by attackPower stat of unit.
So I guess you thought it is adding?
That's Stronger with Attack(+) - I don't think we used it anywhere in AoS yet.

Ooh, so that's what the "(*)" means , yeah, my intention was for it to be added, not multiplied.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:37 am A lot of units set as counters, but with damage insufficient to really call them counters.
They could only counter properly with full techs and buffs.

See above.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:37 am (btw. I would like to move turtle machines along with ornithopter to being fun units - yes I know I have added turtle machine myself, but it would be better that way).

Hm, I see. I personally don't mind, and in some cases think that would be great (especially when the population limit is reached in a match, as the game basically boils down to those 2 units + catapults and elephants afterwards), though I think there might be a good amount of people that won't like that change.

b2198 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 12:42 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:37 am

b2198 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:51 pm The special category would be the [Hero] category, which I'm proposing as just a name change for [Very Agile Defence], since the latter doesn't really make much sense imo. So scouts, rangers, ninjas and rams would have increased damage against him, and with the [Support] category, lasiq assassin and assassin would also have bonuses against him.
I also don't understand why they shouldn't be allowed to be attacking units by themselves...

It made sense for specific set of counters, it is applied to.
[Hero] is undefined and hard to argument for - why would the bonuses come from.
As for why I say hard to counter - I'd advice you to check even one of them real final damage though.
[Mounted] gets from e.g. From spearman it's 5*(100%+60%)+5, so 13 damage vs 12 armor, so exactly 1. Great counter.
Invested Halberdier gives 7 *(100%+60%) + 7 damage, so 18 damage vs 12 armor - only 6 damage - 20% hp.
Oh, and it can be further boosted with blacksmith techs.
Scout gives 16 damage with bonuses vs 12 armor, so 4 hp dealt. ~13%
Mentioned lasiq assasin 5*(100%+150%) = 12. 12 vs 12 armor. 1 hp.

And we are speaking about 5 speed unit, capable to have speed boosted by fresh horses, having 30 hp.
Plus adequate attack similar to late game cavalier, along with proper bonuses.

And it's not, that I am against ability to attack.
I am against them to have adequate attack comparable to proper lategame unit.
Do we assume - it's actually some sort of super elite whole unit (20-50 knights!) - all with such powerful armor?

But since the unit itself doesn't scale with blacksmith (actually, re-checking now I saw I forgot that for melee damage it only requires [Melee] category, so it would need the [No Weapon Upgrade] category too, mb) or any other tech (apart from fervor), and can only get stronger through auras, then it should already be in its late-game form, which makes these unupgraded and unbuffed counters not really effective, yes. But who would have all of them unupgraded at the point this unit would come into play, since it requires a specifc mega + 8 more turns? Maybe if those requirements to train it aren't enough then ee units could be locked behind a tech also researched in said mega?

In comparison, those units (and a few more) when (base stats/fully buffed/fully upgraded/both):
Halberdier: 18/26/21/29 raw damage OR 6/14/9/17 damage vs base armor OR 4/12/7/15 damage vs max armor
Elite Scout: 19/19/19/19 raw damage OR 7/7/7/7 damage vs base armor OR 5/5/5/5 damage vs max armor (which, ok, isn't that much, but still, 6 of them could kill him, and each costs only 1 turn)
Lasiq Assassin: 12/20/27/35 raw damage OR 1/8/15/23 damage vs base armor OR 1/6/13/21 damage vs max armor
Assassin: 12/25/17/30 raw damage OR 1/13/5/18 damage vs base armor OR 1/11/3/16 damage vs max armor (or yk, 66 damage with its ability XD)
Ninja: 20x2/32x2/25x2/37x2 raw damage OR 8x2/20x2/13x2/25x2 damage vs base armor OR 6x2/18x2/11x2/23x2 damage vs max armor (which actually might be too much? )
Ninja backstab: 30/48/37/56 raw damage OR 18/36/25/44 damage vs base armor OR 16/34/23/42 damage vs max armor (which actually might be too much too? )
Elite Flailman: 14/(16+6)x2/16/(18+6)x2 damage (which is also too much? )
Northern Axe Thrower: 9/9+6/12/12+6 damage

It does scale with both buffs for culture neutral and blacksmith techs.
Even if it didn't - there is no proper locking thought of right now, as tiering doesn't really go forward that much.
you are the only person helping there.

So to avoid the problem - I'd prefer to make it killable even by base units, just like coolguy.

b2198 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 12:42 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 7:37 am (btw. I would like to move turtle machines along with ornithopter to being fun units - yes I know I have added turtle machine myself, but it would be better that way).

Hm, I see. I personally don't mind, and in some cases think that would be great (especially when the population limit is reached in a match, as the game basically boils down to those 2 units + catapults and elephants afterwards), though I think there might be a good amount of people that won't like that change.

That is more of a reason to make it like that.

In case general's charge becomes a spell instead of aura, image size is 96x96 or 3x3 with 5 frames

ignore every other art i posted just use this >