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Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:35 am
by Alexander82
I realize the unit based on units like the elephant
This unit costs 10 turn because is not meant to be made at an early stage of the game
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:01 am
by The Pendulum
Alexander82 wrote:I realize the unit based on units like the elephant
This unit costs 10 turn because is not meant to be made at an early stage of the game
I understand that, but with such high defense, health, attack rating, and speed, he alone could wipe out half an army. Nevermind his proposed aura buff. Two of them would be unstoppable, and like i said: the Spartan hoplites don't even have stats that good. Elephants are also massive creatures "tamed" and made war machine; they are not human.
A 10 turn cost doesnt neccessarily make OP units OK.
If i propose a unit with 1000 HP, 200 Armor/Pierce armor and 50 Attack at the cost of 100 turns; IS that ok?
No, it isnt, because nothing could kill it, so all i have to do is hold out for 100 turns until its trained such an OP unit.
All i would have to do is hold out for 10 turns until your Officer is trained and better luck next time whoever is facing me.
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:27 pm
by Alexander82
we might try it. i don't think it is immortal compared to 10 upgraded units together.
we might find a middle way, your version seems worse than a simple heavy knight...
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:44 am
by The Pendulum
Alexander82 wrote:we might try it. i don't think it is immortal compared to 10 upgraded units together.
we might find a middle way, your version seems worse than a simple heavy knight...
Look at it this way. Not one single hero from any campaign has stats that good.
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:44 am
by Alexander82
You don't produce heroes in tcs
Btw, elephants have high hp too.
Anyway i think we might lower the stats but your proposal seems a bit too low to me.
I still think we should still make this unit cost a lot because you should have just a few of it
I also would be positive to a number limit for officers (like for factories).
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:18 pm
by The Pendulum
Alexander82 wrote:You don't produce heroes in tcs
Btw, elephants have high hp too.
Anyway i think we might lower the stats but your proposal seems a bit too low to me.
I still think we should still make this unit cost a lot because you should have just a few of it
I also would be positive to a number limit for officers (like for factories).
I disagree that it's too low, but i also don't have all the stats in front of me for the Knight, etc. Dont forget that your Decurion is not meant to be a frontline Knight, he is a commander, or in RPG terms, and support hybrid.
The elephant is the only unit with such high HP. It stands to reason that this is because they are elephants, not humans. Whether or not heroes can be built in TCs is entirely irrelevant, your Decurion had stats that were better than every hero in the game bar one: the champion. To be able to build a unit in a TC that is better than any non buildable hero is simply silly. The ultimate goal for the Decurion (am i spelling this right?) should be, i feel: stronger and more durable than a knight, as durable but not as strong (not as much attack) as a heavy knight. This is balanced out by his Troop Aura buff. We could even lower the cost to 4 if we went with my suggestion.
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:43 pm
by Alexander82
I thought the unit as a much stronger heavy knight that give bonuses to other units for an high cost.
It's not like the banner bearer that is weak but give bonuses. The decurionr was MEANT to be a better unit. It's not meant to go down with some arrows. His bonus have a radius becaude is meant to fight on the frontline.
this was my starting idea (and that's the reason why i wanted him to cost far morr than a knight)
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:56 pm
by The Pendulum
Alexander82 wrote:I thought the unit as a much stronger heavy knight that give bonuses to other units for an high cost.
It's not like the banner bearer that is weak but give bonuses. The decurionr was MEANT to be a better unit. It's not meant to go down with some arrows. His bonus have a radius becaude is meant to fight on the frontline.
this was my starting idea (and that's the reason why i wanted him to cost far morr than a knight)
I understand he is meant to fight with the troops, but ultimately what I'm trying to say is if you make him too strong, he will make other mounted units irrelevant, even with a high cost. I would love to hear what others think about balancing his stats. Either way, i really want him in the game! He looks very well done and i too, want more Roman era units in game.
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:11 pm
by Alexander82
We might start by raising a little the stats of a heavy knight and make its cost according to the resulting stats.
Anyway i hope that someone else will give his opinion too.
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:26 pm
by COOLguy
I think he would be all nice and balanced with stats about equal to the heavy knight + the bonus aura thing, with a cost of 5~6. But let's keep his speed at 5 (I don't want him to horn in on the hussars' role).
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:07 pm
by Alexander82
Seems reasonable, what about 3/3 armor?
We might try it in game if Daniel agree with that
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:19 pm
by Alexander82
Stats:
cost 6
hp 40 (heavy knight is 39)
Attack power 14 (heavy knight is 12)
Range 1
Armor 3 (heavy knight is 2)
Pierce Armor 3 (heavy knight is 2)
Speed 5
Sight 8
Action/turn 1
Spell Resistance 100%
Size 1x1
Builders: Tc, Stable
Skill: High Morale: +1 to attack, +1 to armor, +1 to pierce armor +1 to speed to all friendly units in a range of 3 squares around the unit
Legion Commander: Legionaries and other roman units gain +1 to attack, +1 to armor, +1 to pierce armor +1 to speed in a range of 5 squares, the effect stack with High Morale
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:18 pm
by The Pendulum
Alexander82 wrote:Stats:
cost 6
hp 40 (heavy knight is 39)
Attack power 14 (heavy knight is 12)
Range 1
Armor 3 (heavy knight is 2)
Pierce Armor 3 (heavy knight is 2)
Speed 5
Sight 8
Action/turn 1
Spell Resistance 100%
Size 1x1
Builders: Tc, Stable
Skill: High Morale: +1 to attack, +1 to armor, +1 to pierce armor +1 to speed to all friendly units in a range of 3 squares around the unit
Legion Commander: Legionaries and other roman units gain +1 to attack, +1 to armor, +1 to pierce armor +1 to speed in a range of 5 squares, the effect stack with High Morale
I don't mean to seem like I'm flat out disagreeing with you, or just being unreasonable, quite the contrary, but wouldn't it make more sense for the heavy knight to have more armor than the Decurion? The Roman era went as far back as ~700 years before the high middle ages, and Romans (for the most part--especially prior to their reforms) were much more lightly armored than their Middle aged counterparts, the Knights. Just my thoughts on historical accuracy.
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:48 pm
by Alexander82
Well consider that in this game the oplite is one of the highest armored unit...
Btw the decurion is an officer, he might affor better equipment (and i remember about studies that said that romans blacksmithing was better than medieval blacksmithing)
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:21 pm
by COOLguy
I think the Centurion dude can have more armor but less pierce armor than the heavy knight - you can see that the Heavy Knight has chain mail armor stuff and the Decurion has more plate armor. But that's just me talking.
I think Alexander is right: in many ways the Romans were more advanced than most of the Middle Ages ( AKA the Dark Ages
).
Otherwise I think the new stats (with armors revised to 3/1) look pretty balanced.
Re: Roman Centurion
Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:58 pm
by Alexander82
We might give it a try.
Btw i also was thinking to an high pierce armor because he has a big shield (like the oplite) and shields are the best stuff against arrows, but i think balance should be our first concern. Just in case we wanna leave it 3/3 we might also raise it's cost by 1.
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:45 pm
by Stratego (dev)
implemented !
up on server in 10 minutes!
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:55 am
by Alexander82
Great!
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:40 am
by Alexander82
I've found 2 issues: the first one is that archers aren't affected from high morale and centurions too (from other centurions high morale skill). The other issue is that legionaries aren't affected from the legion commander skill
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:53 pm
by Alexander82
Also, high morale doesn't increase speed
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:56 pm
by COOLguy
I don't know, did Daniel mean to implement those abilities now? that would require a lot of extra coding.
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:57 pm
by Alexander82
Legion commander is the same skill that high morale is, it just affect roman units (like legionaries)
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:21 pm
by COOLguy
The crest thing on the image's helmet has team color bugs (They are pink)
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:26 pm
by TheBluePhoenix
He should have at least 50 hp and 7 turn cost for an imp unit like him . And he surely needs above 70% resitant to spell. But i strongly suggest to make him inconvertible
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:03 pm
by Alexander82
In fact he should be 100% inconvertible
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:06 pm
by Alexander82
try this one
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:54 am
by TheBluePhoenix
I saw his stats and they seem quite fair to me. No one will produce hussars now
I think
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:23 am
by Alexander82
Well, you just need a couple of this (and after all i never used hussars even before)
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:43 am
by TheBluePhoenix
True
Re: Roman Centurion - IMPLEMENTED
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:15 pm
by Stratego (dev)
The legion command ability is in.