Age of Strategy Forums

No.

What I was saying was:

-I think every nation we implement at the start should have 3 special national units
-so we have to implement more units whether they are for a "Saracen" nation or a "Russia" nation

DoomCarrot wrote:Also, I don't think we should reskin normal units, and just leave them as common units, as that would be a lot of work.

No, I agree. What I was saying was that with a little image touch-ups we can change the normal horse-archer to a Hungarian Horse archer. (since the Longbow is technically an English Longbow, the War Elephant is like a Carthaginian War Elephant) so we can have more special national units.

DoomCarrot wrote:Also, what do you mean by unit/images that we have to find? Are you thinking of flags, like AoF has shields for the factions? If so, I was imagining we could simply have the name of the nations to begin with.

Not sure which part you are referring to

but:

COOLguy wrote:-I think every nation we implement at the start should have 3 special national units
-so we have to implement more units whether they are for a "Saracen" nation or a "Russia" nation

Because a nation with only one special unit is a pretty sorry nation - especially when you can no longer build any more of the other national units.

Ah ok, well, in that case, we must work on a lot of existing nations (Korea, Hungary, Celts) before this is implemented, because I think we only have 2-3 national units for 2 nations right now.

Unless we do just reskin some units like horse archers and elephants. However, would they have different stats? What would set them apart from the common units that everyone can build?

Shouldnt Longbowmen be English/British/Celt?
Or...
Maybe a little pumped up, for exclusive English/British/Celt Longbowmen (new unit)?

Longbows should deffinately be english, saxon, or something of that sort. Good point.

I don't see this idea, actually. I know something about balancing sides in game and I suppose it's quite impossible here without changing EVERYTHING. I'm afraid if it can destroy power of this game in present look.
Sorry for all, maybe I am wrong, but for now I am totally against this concept

What would make anything unbalanced? To be honest, there isn't a single national unit that is "needed" or "overpowered." Also, this does not really greatly change the game, and only removes the option to build about 6-8 troops based on what nation you are.

Hussars certainly are great for a fast, light cavalry strategy. This is not the only strategy to play by. And If it is, you could be Hungary or Russia.

Romans are great if you have time to build an organized army. Man-at-arms and banner bearers work fine for a similar strategy if you do it right.

Turtles are good at defending important waters. So are fire archers.

Longbows are alright.

Tuetonic knights are a nice infantry unit for castles, but they are not overpowered at all.

Celtic warriors and samurai are both great anti-infantry units, but neither are heavily used, or overpowered.

Where is the unbalance?

Longbows would be Ideal for sniping workers and suppression.

Well, yes. But they aren't unbalancingly powerful in my opinion. But they are certainly nice to have!

HokanPL wrote:I don't see this idea, actually. I know something about balancing sides in game and I suppose it's quite impossible here without changing EVERYTHING. I'm afraid if it can destroy power of this game in present look.
Sorry for all, maybe I am wrong, but for now I am totally against this concept

Id really like to know, how this game mode, would need to change EVERYTHING, to make it balanced lol.

My first guess is..90-95% of ALL units would be available to ALL countries.
Only a specific few units are given to countries, to make them different.

BUT

The general bonuses def need looking at seriously, this could easily unbalance some nations. But then again..war was rarely balanced..and lets say (for example) the vikings wouldnt have liked fighting in the desert lol.

P.S. Goodstuff on the list DC.

Yes, basically every nation would have 95% the same units, but each nation would be able to build its few national units as well.

Also, as for general bonuses, they COULD be hugely unbalancing if not done right. To be honest, I think general bonuses might be a lot to implement, but I did have an idea.What if general bonuses were starting techs? For instance, Romans could start with ambidextria, since they had great builders. Germany could start with loyalty or something, mongolians could start with master archery 1, etc.

Is this a good idea, or is it not really?

DoomCarrot wrote:Yes, basically every nation would have 95% the same units, but each nation would be able to build its few national units as well.

Also, as for general bonuses, they COULD be hugely unbalancing if not done right. To be honest, I think general bonuses might be a lot to implement, but I did have an idea.What if general bonuses were starting techs? For instance, Romans could start with ambidextria, since they had great builders. Germany could start with loyalty or something, mongolians could start with master archery 1, etc.

Is this a good idea, or is it not really?

Hey I think thats a cracking idea, about the general bonuses!

Cool.

I've written about unbalancing because I thought every nation get units which cannot be recruited by another ones. For example only Nation A gets normal Archers and swordmen, rest - no. If we're talking about the concept many units are avaliable for all and only some units are specific for specific nations - my words aren't actual.

Ah, I see. Yes, all nations would have the same basic units, buildings, etc.

I remember that some sid meywer's civilization games had some specific units that were substitutes for normal units (for example a japanese player had the samurai unit instead of a normal swordman, so a roman player could use a legionaire instead of a normal infantry.
We should obviously rebalance everything for that mode, but that might add something and make some units more useful.

I also suggest that some units costs are lowered in that mode to become a real addition to the player.
For example a player that have access to hussars should be able to buy those instead of normal knights and their cost should become 4, like a normal knight.

That is another way of doing it. However, that might be a weakness for some, like swapping mongolian horse archers with horse archers. Because MHA don't get any blacksmith bonuses and they can't upgrade.

So, I agree, if we do go that route, much balancing would need to be done to make it fair.

Alexander82 wrote:I remember that some sid meywer's civilization games had some specific units that were substitutes for normal units (for example a japanese player had the samurai unit instead of a normal swordman, so a roman player could use a legionaire instead of a normal infantry.
We should obviously rebalance everything for that mode, but that might add something and make some units more useful.

I also suggest that some units costs are lowered in that mode to become a real addition to the player.
For example a player that have access to hussars should be able to buy those instead of normal knights and their cost should become 4, like a normal knight.

Thats a very interesting idea, and more realistic me thinks.

Though, like DC said, it will take a little more balancing. I think maybe worth it..not sure

Nations concept for AoS by me.
Roman UU=Legionare, Centurion, Saggitarus Ability:All units +1 speed when adjacent to legionare (to simulate roads)
Japan UU=Samurai, Tanegashima, Yari Ashigaru Ability:Can build dojos (train basic units that have upgrades and upgrade basic units)
Celt UU=Celtic Swordsman, Highlander Ability:All infantries adjacent to priest or missionary increase their conversion ressistance by 5% ?
Greece UU=Hoplite, Fire Siphon Ability:Can build gymnasion (train basic infantries and research blacksmith techs)
Hungary UU=Hussar, Tabor(Hungarian War Wagon) Ability:?
Egypt UU=Mameluke, Egyptian Chariot Archer (the one in map editor) Ability:Build buildings faster
Germany UU=Teutonic Knight, Zweihander, War Wagon Ability:Start with loyalty tech
Korea UU=Turtle Ship, Hwacha Ability:-1 turn for researching techs
Mongolia UU=Mongolian Horseman, Stepee Rider ? Ability:Can build a Mongolian Ger (Train mounted units and shoot enemies)
VIking UU=Berserker (the one in level editor), Longship Ability:-1 turn for building ships
Saracen UU=Saracen Archer, Hashashim (Special Assasin) Ability:-1 turn for training religious units
?=I am not sure
What do you think of my concept?

DoomCarrot wrote:That is another way of doing it. However, that might be a weakness for some, like swapping mongolian horse archers with horse archers. Because MHA don't get any blacksmith bonuses and they can't upgrade.

So, I agree, if we do go that route, much balancing would need to be done to make it fair.

I think that in a nation games the units should definitely benefit from bonuses (national units have to be used, or else it's just a common game)

I believe right now there r three completed nations, or groups of nations, so here is my idea

Ancient Roman Empire: The glorious Rome has risen once again to reclaim their empire
Unique units:
Roman garrison
Centurion
Drummer
Other roman units
Heavy chariot (other nation will have only chariot)


Holy Catholic Empire: When Europe wasted in darkness, the Church brought it back to life. Once again they shall expand their ideology into the new world and convert it to their faith
Unique units:
Church and Cathedral
Priest (other nation will only have healer)
Missionary
Templar, templar knight and upgrades
Teutonic knight


Land of the Rising Sun: ruled by the shogunate, the samurai are gearing up for war. And when they fight a war they won't stop killing until they stop breathing
Unique units:
Dojo
Ashigaru packs
Samurai and hatamoto
Ninja



There r many nice ideas for all three nations, once these get implemented they will b included in the unique units list of the respective nations

Yes cool!

I can add few more:
Viking union
Fierce warriors and great sailors of the north
Unique units:
Flailman
Celtic warrior
Galleas upgrade (others will have only galley)
Mending ship
Viking ship

Hungarian kingdom
(Here must be description)
Unique units:
Heavy horse archer (others will have normal ones only)
Hungarian hussar
Bird
Elite light cavalry (others will have normal one only)

I know an unit we can implement to Russia they're called Cossacks and were very popular in east Slavic countries especially Russia and Ukraine, back then Ukraine and Russia were one.
Cossacks are a group of predominantly East Slavic–speaking people who became known as members of democratic, self-governing, semi-military communities, predominantly located in Eastern and Southern Ukraine and in Southern Russia, within the borders of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
They played an important role in the historical and cultural development.
The Don Cossack Host, which had been established by the 16th century, allied with the Tsardom of Russia. Together they began a systematic conquest and colonisation of lands in order to secure borders.
By the end of the 18th century Cossack nations had been transformed into a special military estate (Sosloviye), "a military class". Similar to the knights of medieval Europe in feudal times or the tribal Roman auxiliaries, the Cossacks came to military service having to obtain charger horses, arms and supplies at their own expense. The government provided only firearms and supplies for them. Cossack service was considered the most rigorous one.

So in my opinion i think this will go perfect with Russia
I'm not really good with making stats because i joined yesterday so if we implement this unit to the game it would be better to let someone else think about that but I'll tell what i know about them.
the Cossacks were always on fast horses like the wiki says (charger horses) and were very skilled riding their horses they even could ride them upside down
They also had rifle's or a bow and a very long curved sword and were expert's using the rifle/bow and sword horseback.
So the unit has to have.
1 very fast speed. Maybe like those mongol archers on horseback.
2 a unit spell that they can shoot with their rifles would make this unit interesting to use.
3 make them 3 turn like the light weight horseman similar stats like them but you also need to unlock gunpowder to unlock their full potential.
3 make them 3 turn like the lightweight horse but with less defence.
So basically a very fast unit with a ranged spell that needs gunpowder upgrade and atack upgrades to make him good.

Yeah that's it for now what do you guys think?
I'll post some pictures of them.
@COOLguy

If this is a yes then I'll draw the Cossack. i drew a horse today but it's not finished yet so i can easily remake it into a sprite that fits the Cossacks description.

I'd like to see cossacks for aos but not only mounted ones but foot ones as well.
Infantry cossacks were much more common in 15th century when they have formed.

Oke, yeah i read that if we going for the nation's with specialized units and i think that's a very good idea by the way, then some nation's need more units and Russia is one of them so that's why i think Cossacks needs to be implemented because they were one of the most important military unit's from Russia.

sorry i had to delete the attached images as were too big - big images are needed to be linked externally - others will help if have not found how to.

Stratego (dev) wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:42 pm sorry i had to delete the attached images as were too big - big images are needed to be linked externally - others will help if have not found how to.

Will post URLs next time sorry bout that.

So what do you guys think?
The image is far from done but its just to show what direction it will go.

URL links how Cossacks looked like
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=ht ... h%2Fx%2Fim

It doesn't look bad, but the concept has a flaw. We can't make horses stay in an uncomfortable stance, because it will look unnatural for it to keep that pose and much more for the rider to fight from it.