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Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:29 pm
by godOfKings
No, not ignore armor but higher damage against infantry than archer, because of higher bonus (more penetrating power on horseback than standalone)
If u want armor ignoring, see flail man, it is nerfed so badly and so slow too
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:50 pm
by StormSaint373
Nevertheless, it'll be useless.
For what you specify, Mongol horseman has higher dmg, reg horse Archer has more range
Same bonuses. where would this win? Really?
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:55 pm
by makazuwr32
No this one will have higher damage because of higher bonus.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:32 pm
by StormSaint373
What is the difference?
So, essentially a ranged saphi
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:01 pm
by makazuwr32
Bigger damage to infantries at lower range. That is the difference.
Especially good in late game when all blacksmith upgrades are researched.
What do you think will be better:
Heavy horse archer with 12 damage to infantry unit or this one with 16 damage to same infantry?
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:12 pm
by StormSaint373
Can the range be increased to 5, then...
What units are affected by blacksmith upgrades?
Nation units don't seem to be, neither to spec units...
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:43 pm
by makazuwr32
This one is affected.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:00 pm
by StormSaint373
StormSaint373 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:12 pm
Can the range be increased to 5, then...
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:10 pm
by makazuwr32
Why? It is good enough already.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:12 pm
by StormSaint373
Mechanical force...
It seems logical for it to shoot slightly farther than a shortbow.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:23 pm
by makazuwr32
Than they will be definately better than horse archers. No.
Horse archers already will loose in damage to them and only their advantages would be speed and range and with 5 range for this one horse archers will become without upgrades completely unused.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:29 pm
by StormSaint373
Isn't mounted Crossbowman cost 5 too?
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:31 pm
by makazuwr32
godOfKings wrote: ↑Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:52 pm
How effective is a crossbow bolt in piercing heavy shield, like shield knight for example? A shield knight would charge by keeping shield in front of horse u know, it would b hard for a crossbow shaking on running horse to directly hit target that is not protected by enemy shield,
How about instead
4 turn cost
HP 25
Atk 6
Range 4
Armor 0/0
Speed 5
HOWEVER, bonus against infantry 100%, so deals 12 damage instead of 9
+ effected by blacksmith upgrades so finally will have 6 range and 16 dmg max
Kind of like the skirmisher on horseback
I was wrong bout speed only. Both will have same speed.
Horse archer will have a bit (+1) higher health and range (+1) but lower damage for exactly same cost.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:35 pm
by StormSaint373
Alright.
I'll do image, IF you don't mind chainmail...
It has grown to be my AoS style.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:14 am
by StormSaint373
Ok, @Endru1241 , this one has had a year since last reply...
A recap and additions...
Mounted Crossbowman/Mounted Crossbow Elite
Cost: 4
Hp: 24/27
Att: 6/7
Rng: 4/5
Armor: 0/0, 2/1
Speed: 5
SR: 50%
Vision: 8
Action/Turn: 1
Bonuses: 100% vs infantry, 50% vs flying
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:16 am
by StormSaint373
Imgs
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:28 am
by L4cus
Are pretty good. It looks like u wnt an upgrade. Im wrong?
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:02 am
by StormSaint373
You are correct.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:10 am
by L4cus
Original and upgrade stats?
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:19 am
by StormSaint373
Yes
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:49 am
by L4cus
Im telling u to post it. I wanna see those stats. If u can, make a comparission with another similar unit.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:32 am
by Endru1241
StormSaint373 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:14 am
A recap and additions...
Mounted Crossbowman/Mounted Crossbow Elite
Cost: 4
Hp: 24/27
Att: 6/7
Rng: 4/5
Armor: 0/0, 2/1
Speed: 5
SR: 50%
Vision: 8
Action/Turn: 1
Bonuses: 100% vs infantry, 50% vs flying
These stats make it superior to horse archer in any scenario. Especially upgraded one.
To make sense he would need additional tech.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:51 am
by L4cus
Shouldn't this be in range units topics? Anyway, it looks op.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:44 pm
by godOfKings
I m pretty sure wen i first suggested a 4 turn stat i didnt expect it to have upgrade
If u want it upgradeable either increase cost to 5 with a bit higher hp, or keep range at 4 or give miss chance as a drawback of riding unstable horse
Or just make the upgraded unit the third upgrade of horse archer with 50% bonus and we can all go our own ways
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:58 pm
by StormSaint373
Think I prefer cost 5...
StormSaint373 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:14 am
Ok,
@Endru1241 , this one has had a year since last reply...
A recap and additions...
Mounted Crossbowman/Mounted Crossbow Elite
Cost: 5
Hp: 24/27
Att: 6/7
Rng: 4/5
Armor: 0/0, 2/1
Speed: 5
SR: 50%
Vision: 8
Action/Turn: 1
Bonuses: 100% vs infantry, 50% vs flying
So, this good? As a cost 5 unit?
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:33 am
by L4cus
StormSaint373 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:58 pm
Think I prefer cost 5...
StormSaint373 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:14 am
Ok, @Endru1241 , this one has had a year since last reply...
A recap and additions...
Mounted Crossbowman/Mounted Crossbow Elite
Cost: 5
Hp: 24/27
Att: 6/7
Rng: 4/5
Armor: 0/0, 2/1
Speed: 5
SR: 50%
Vision: 8
Action/Turn: 1
Bonuses: 100% vs infantry, 50% vs flying
So, this good? As a cost 5 unit?
I'd reduce sight and armor. +2/+1 with sn upgrade is a lot. +0/+2 would be better i think.
Sight should be 7.
Y the SR is 50%?
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:16 am
by StormSaint373
Mounted Crossbowman/Mounted Crossbow Elite
Cost: 5
Hp: 24/27
Att: 6/7
Rng: 4/5
Armor: 0/0, 0/2
Speed: 5
SR: 0%
Vision: 7
Action/Turn: 1
Bonuses: 100% vs infantry, 50% vs flying
So, this good? As a cost 5 unit? , @Endru1241
Fixed stats, @L4cus
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:56 pm
by Endru1241
Mounted Crossbowman/Mounted Crossbow Elite
Cost: 5
Hp: 24/27
Att: 6/7
Rng: 4/5
Armor: 0/0, 0/2
Speed: 5
SR: 0%
Vision: 7
Action/Turn: 1
Bonuses: 100% vs infantry, 50% vs flying
So, this good? As a cost 5 unit?
It would be OK, even a little weak in non-upgaded version.
But I'm a little confused about the exact role of this unit and logic behind it.
Why average damage vs infantry is so much superior compared to horse archer?
Lack (or very little occurrence) of mounted crossbowmen probably came from pure financial reasons - why prepare special weapon and trained horse, when effectiveness of such attire is limited.
Maybe reloading the crossbow was too dangerous in full speed and they acted more like dragoons?
Anyway - the only historical use of mounted crossbow, that I recall was dealing with pikemen and poorly armored lancers.
So maybe make it 3 turn unit?
Poor man horse archers?
Staying as a 5 turn unit, I think the stats are fine, like I wrote, but I would set his armor as 1/0 and 2/1 after upgrade, similar to previous proposition.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:37 pm
by L4cus
Is it posible to make he onlly attacks when doesn't move? Just like dragoons.
Re: Mounted Crossbowmen
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:57 pm
by Endru1241
L4cus wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:37 pm
Is it posible to make he onlly attacks when doesn't move? Just like dragoons.
Not without writing new code.
Ability like attack could make him stationary on reload.