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Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:23 pm
by General Brave
Shouldn't they get intelligent? You know, they can see father.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:25 pm
by General Brave
And the American should get cheaper production costs.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:52 pm
by Belfry777
nice try but no. cheaper cost means 1 turn which is unstoppable! Please look in game first.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:26 am
by General Brave
I don't mean everything, just some things.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:26 am
by Belfry777
it's called spamming when you do that.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:36 am
by General Brave
And what's wrong with that? The USSR did it.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:42 am
by Belfry777
I think I like that the stats for the U.S infantry have more hp.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:48 am
by General Brave
Okay I may agree on that, what about the rest of the nations
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:28 am
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
Germany should have more power, decent hp and speed. Us more speed, decent power and hp and ussr more hp, low power and decent speed.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:47 pm
by Belfry777
well the Germans were well trained so higher power and better defense in forests would be suitable. As for the Japaneses they were fast at moving to defensive positions but they were stealth about it, so maybe a slight invisibility and 1+ speed.
Japaneses - faster 1+ speed, and slight invisibility
Germans - Higher power and better defense in forests
Russian - no speed penitently in snow and forests - (Do you like these stats maka?)
Americans - Higher Hp and bonus on other infantry
I am trying to make them even in stats.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:41 pm
by Puss_in_Boots
You can't really give units a slight invisibility. It's more right or left, visible or not visible until you step within one tile close to it.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:08 am
by Belfry777
well "pussinboots" I think within a circle radius of 2 squares, that should be a suitable range.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:44 am
by makazuwr32
I've read while studying this subject more than 100 sources.
And I must say that the Soviet infantry was the most resilient and the most mobile of all, but had average weapons.
Germans were the least mobile on foot (they relied mostly on their transport cars and trains) but with the most powerful at the beginning fire power for infantries.
USA had average firepower at the beginning but at the end of WW2 they had best weapons for infantries.
Japan had worst weapons from all 4 but they were fanatical and fearsome warriors.
So i suggest this:
Soviets - Most hp, bonus speed on rough terrain (forests, snow, could move through mountains faster), 2 place on attack at the beginning (on pair with USA), also suggest unique structure for them - "Pontoon crossing": Buildable for 1 turn on water but has 1 hp. Can't be built in deep water.
Germans - Least hp, most damage at the beginning, slower on rough terrains, their damage could be beaten by few upgrades in USA army.
USA - 3rd place (of current 4) on hp, bonus speed on sands, 2nd place (on pair with Soviets) on damage but with ability to increase it to get 1st place.
Japan - 2nd place on hp, current infantries speed, worst damage, have additional ability "Suicide grenade": kills caster and deals regular grenade's damage in area.
Also about "invisibility" - ALL infantries had skills to move silent and to camouflage themself so if we will give this "invisibility" than all infantries or nobody.
As a variant - as a Action Skill with some lenth (3 turns i think or even 2) and with cooldown. Snipers though must have perma invisibility then.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:48 am
by samuelch
Maybe the Germans can also have more elite units with more hp and attack (Waffen-SS, Panzergrenadier). So Germans regular infantries are lower in hp than all other 4 nations, but their elite units have most hp.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:52 am
by makazuwr32
I'm talking about regular infantries.
About their elites i'll post later.
For each Nation exept Japan because i don't have enough information about their infantry special forces.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:58 am
by samuelch
Us infantry
Attack:8 can be upgraded to 10
Hp: 35
Soviet infantry
No movement penalty
Attack: 8
Hp: 42
German infantry
Attack: 10
Hp: 32
Japanese Infantry
Attack: 7
Hp: 40
Ability: Suicide Grenade/Banzai Charge?
All infantries have hide ability=Become invisible for 2 turns.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:01 am
by Midonik
Sounds good and kind of balanced I think.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:05 am
by samuelch
I have changed the main post.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:07 am
by makazuwr32
Us must gain more than German attack after upgrade.
I suggest 11-12 damage.
And also i suggest as i said some movement changes:
makazuwr32 wrote:Soviets - Most hp, bonus speed on rough terrain (forests, snow, could move through mountains faster), 2 place on attack at the beginning (on pair with USA), also suggest unique structure for them - "Pontoon crossing": Buildable for 1 turn on water but has 1 hp. Can't be built in deep water.
Germans - Least hp, most damage at the beginning, slower on rough terrains, their damage could be beaten by few upgrades in USA army.
USA - 3rd place (of current 4) on hp, bonus speed on sands, 2nd place (on pair with Soviets) on damage but with ability to increase it to get 1st place.
Japan - 2nd place on hp, current infantries speed, worst damage, have additional ability "Suicide grenade": kills caster and deals regular grenade's damage in area.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:12 am
by samuelch
viewtopic.php?f=199&t=5282 Pontoon Crossing
The Soviet gets no movement penalty.
About the Germans, we only have mountains and forest that are considered rough terrains right now. I think all infantries shouldn't get penalty in forest.
I'll add bonus on sand for US.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:16 am
by makazuwr32
For soviets they must have bonus speed in forests and on snow terrains. Also they can't have speed 3 on mountains. keep speed 1 there as others exept germans.
Germans must have -1 speed in forests (but their elite infantries will not have one) and can't climb mountains (their elites can)
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:25 am
by samuelch
Updated.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:53 am
by Stratego (dev)
makazuwr32 wrote:I've read while studying this subject more than 100 sources.
And I must say that the Soviet infantry was the most resilient and the most mobile of all, but had average weapons.
Germans were the least mobile on foot (they relied mostly on their transport cars and trains) but with the most powerful at the beginning fire power for infantries.
USA had average firepower at the beginning but at the end of WW2 they had best weapons for infantries.
Japan had worst weapons from all 4 but they were fanatical and fearsome warriors.
So i suggest this:
Soviets - Most hp, bonus speed on rough terrain (forests, snow, could move through mountains faster), 2 place on attack at the beginning (on pair with USA), also suggest unique structure for them - "Pontoon crossing": Buildable for 1 turn on water but has 1 hp. Can't be built in deep water.
Germans - Least hp, most damage at the beginning, slower on rough terrains, their damage could be beaten by few upgrades in USA army.
USA - 3rd place (of current 4) on hp, bonus speed on sands, 2nd place (on pair with Soviets) on damage but with ability to increase it to get 1st place.
Japan - 2nd place on hp, current infantries speed, worst damage, have additional ability "Suicide grenade": kills caster and deals regular grenade's damage in area.
Also about "invisibility" - ALL infantries had skills to move silent and to camouflage themself so if we will give this "invisibility" than all infantries or nobody.
As a variant - as a Action Skill with some lenth (3 turns i think or even 2) and with cooldown. Snipers though must have perma invisibility then.
seems very deatiled research - thanks!
do we have final suggestion of stats?
if so is here anyone who could modify the json according to it? maybe Midonik?
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:09 pm
by samuelch
Final:
Us infantry
Attack:8 can be upgraded to 10
Hp: 35
Speed=3 Gets +1 speed on sand tiles.
Soviet infantry
Attack: 8
Hp: 42
Speed: 3 +1 speed on forest and snow tiles
German infantry
Attack: 10
Hp: 32
Speed=3 -1 speed on forest tiles , can't climb mountains (their elite or more powerful units won't get these 2 traits.)
Japanese Infantry
Attack: 7
Hp: 40
Speed=3
Ability: Suicide Grenade/Banzai Charge?
All infantries have hide ability=Become invisible for 2 turns.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:10 pm
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
I disagree with some of the stats, as in my opinion they are historical inaccurate. First of all, firepower doesnt depend on weapons, it depends on the infantrys training instead. The soviets were soo poorly equiped and trained that they had to rely on outnumbering their enemies. In addition, the japanese may have been using some crap weapons (they were average in my opinion but thats not my point) but they were trained and armed (unlike the soviets). To sum up, soviets should have the least firepower, while japanese medium firepower.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:26 pm
by makazuwr32
Soviets even at the beginning of were pretty well armed and trained.
And Even in the critical periods new soldiers had to train 3 months. Also There were clubs of war training (only in Moscow more than 5'000! and in each more than 50 people if not count instructors or 250'000 pretty well trained men at the beginning as volonteurs.)
Another point is that "The invinsible" Kvantun Army of Japan (more than 1 million soldiers, 6260 artillery guns and mortars, 1155 tanks, 1,900 aircraft, and 25 ships) was defeated less than 1 month by Soviets (over 400 thousand people, 7137 artillery guns and mortars, 2119 tanks and ACS, etc., also i must mention that they had worse ships than Japan).
In the "Kuril Islands Landing Operation" 80'000 army of Japan with 50+ tanks, planes, ships were defeated by soviet landing party (about 9'000 soldiers, without tanks and planes, only 20 artillrery guns) with destroying of 40 tanks and more than 2'500 soldiers of Japan (and also 75'000+ Japan Soldiers as war prisoners) while losing about 1'500 . For 1 day. In sea storm.
Do you really think that if they were trained worse than Japanese they could defeat with such small forces such large army for 24 hours?
Upd.:
I found some information about training of Japan regular infantries and i must say that if "this" can be called as "Well trained" than soviet volonteurs were gods of war after 3 months of training...
At the 1945 Japans have about 400'000 well trained soldiers (who was really trained at same level as soviets after training clubs) and more than 600'000 volonteurs who were trained at level like "where and how shoot from your rifle".
And at the same time Soviets had more war experience (from war with German Nazi's) and better weapons .
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:06 pm
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
If the soviets were actually well armed and trained they wouldnt take the most casualties in the war (they always took twice the german casualties). The tactics they used were crap as well.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:13 pm
by samuelch
Japanese tanks are worse than Soviet tanks. The Japanese fights the US too, so they don't focus their force all to Soviet. The stats here are ok for the late and early war Soviet but not for mid war one.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:16 pm
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
Im pretty sure the soviets defeated the kvantun army of japan because they had twice more tanks (and better) and more artillery pieces. When i said soviets werent well trained i clearly didnt mean ALL of them. Of course there would be a lot of good fighters but MOST of them were just sent to slaughter.
Re: Infantry Stats Change
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:20 pm
by samuelch
Or this stats is ok for the Soviet infantries. But make the cost to 3. The Soviet will get a similar unit called Opolchenye. A 2 turn cost units with a horrible attack same hp. At the late game you can research a tech to make regular Soviet infantries cost 2 thus making opolchenye obsolete.