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Re: Raise longbowmans range
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:29 pm
by Alexander82
Savra wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:07 pm
Reading through
@makazuwr32 suggestion, it looks like it should be fine.
Btw if your referring to the aimed shot for the elf sentry to increase its range to 12, it actually reduces their range by 1, deducts speed by 4, deducts attack by 4, and increases actions by 2,
Anyway,
@Alexander82 you could just combine your idea with Mak's, giving the elves a longbow unit, while doing what you suggested with the longbow unit for humans.
Orc archer could just be a stronger archer for orcs compared to the goblin archers, while units with higher range could be left to sub races like for example, longbow units for hobgoblins.
Undead could have a 8 ranged unit for the phantoms, the phantom archer that was suggested that is. They have other means of reaching high ranges anyway like the use of the liches and their magic missiles which can reach range 8.
As for the throwers idea, I suggest we leave for the races a max range of 6 for the throwers while the trolls, being bigger and stronger as well as more costly, could have 7 at max.
The elves outpost should remain with their vision aura so that they still have some uses by upping the unit insides attack, but you could remove the range bonus of you feel like.
No, I won't change the range of other races.
We have already a pretty thin range of variability among ranged units and reducing elites units archers to 8 would also mean that crossbowmen should have range 7, also to balance out things their attack should increase by at least +2 or +3 for the lost efficiency.
Since the longbowman unit is pretty useful already (as reported on discord by other forumers) I don't feel the need or further changes and thus everything will stay as it is.
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:37 pm
by makazuwr32
Alexander82 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:44 pm
2) we give +1 range and -2 damage to longbowman, remove aimed shot and we should, then, give a 10 range archer for the basic elven army.
This option as for me is good enough (by the way sentry's range will also increase or not? Or maybe instead he will get bonus attack?)
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:39 pm
by Alexander82
makazuwr32 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:37 pm
Alexander82 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:44 pm
2) we give +1 range and -2 damage to longbowman, remove aimed shot and we should, then, give a 10 range archer for the basic elven army.
This option as for me is good enough (by the way sentry's range will also increase or not? Or maybe instead he will get bonus attack?)
No, It is not necessary to raise further elite unit's range as they have already a higher damage. Anyway since current situation seems fine I will leave things as they are.
Re: Raise longbowmans range
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:22 pm
by Savra
Alexander82 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:25 pm
Anchar wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:28 pm
I believe that orc archers should be inferior to human archers by 1 in range
That would mean increasing the range of goblin archer as orcish archer already has -1 range on human archer and that's not going to change (I might raise the goblin archer's range though).
I'm assuming you mean their max range? At base, the Orc archer starts with his higher range, and ends at 8, goblin archer perfect range already, if you increase that then you might as well increase skeletons, humans, and dwarves ranges as well, and that to me is unnecessary being that it would only lead to further complaints and problems.
Simply just do the increase for the human archer that you suggested and we could go from there.
Also, I'd still like to see a longbow elf archer.
As for humans aimed shot ability, why don't we just make that a tech researchable for humans longbowman and base archer? Like the elves only with a different effect like +1 range and +2 attack while the imperial one would have a slightly better version of this.
Re: Raise longbowmans range
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:26 pm
by Alexander82
Savra wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:22 pm
Alexander82 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:25 pm
Anchar wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:28 pm
I believe that orc archers should be inferior to human archers by 1 in range
That would mean increasing the range of goblin archer as orcish archer already has -1 range on human archer and that's not going to change (I might raise the goblin archer's range though).
I'm assuming you mean their max range? At base, the Orc archer starts with his higher range, and ends at 8, goblin archer perfect range already, if you increase that then you might as well increase skeletons, humans, and dwarves ranges as well, and that to me is unnecessary being that it would only lead to further complaints and problems.
Simply just do the increase for the human archer that you suggested and we could go from there.
Also, I'd still like to see a longbow elf archer.
As for humans aimed shot ability, why don't we just make that a tech researchable for humans longbowman and base archer? Like the elves only with a different effect like +1 range and +2 attack while the imperial one would have a slightly better version of this.
It was just a joke, since he was saying that orc and goblin archer should share the same range.
Anyway I think it is better not as
@makazuwr32 wanted elves to have higher range for elven archers. If we raise the range for the longbowman it would be strange if the imperial archer had a shorter range.
I am thinking that we could use the longbowman as the basic archer with 9 range maxed and cost 2, while the current archer could be replaced by a shortbowman similar to the elven fast archer (lower range/damage and double action for cost 3).
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:45 am
by Savra
That could work too, then their wouldn't be much problems with ranged.
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:32 am
by Alexander82
Ok so I'd like you all to vote the following solutions:
1) keep things as they are
2) keep current archer as it is with the longbowman image and use the basic archer image for a fast archer (cost 3, 2 actions, max range 8 and attack 4).
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:39 am
by Savra
Would the longbowman keep his aimed shot for the second proposal? If so then I am for option 2.
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:50 am
by Anchar
Alexander82 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:25 pm
Anchar wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:28 pm
I believe that orc archers should be inferior to human archers by 1 in range
That would mean increasing the range of goblin archer as orcish archer already has -1 range on human archer and that's not going to change (I might raise the goblin archer's range though).
I meant that after this update, the maximum range of the archer in 2 turns will be 8, which will coincide with the range of the orc archers in 3 turns.
I do not want it.
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:53 am
by Anchar
And what did you choose eventually. Do you want to reduce the range of archers in 2 turns by -1 and remove the skill of archers in 3 turns?
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:02 am
by Alexander82
Savra wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:39 am
Would the longbowman keep his aimed shot for the second proposal? If so then I am for option 2.
No, it will actually be identical to current archer.
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:04 am
by Alexander82
Anchar wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:53 am
And what did you choose eventually. Do you want to reduce the range of archers in 2 turns by -1 and remove the skill of archers in 3 turns?
I'm basically proposing to trade tge longbowman for a dual action archer (like the elven quick archer).
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:57 am
by Anchar
Alexander82 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:04 am
Anchar wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:53 am
And what did you choose eventually. Do you want to reduce the range of archers in 2 turns by -1 and remove the skill of archers in 3 turns?
I'm basically proposing to trade tge longbowman for a dual action archer (like the elven quick archer).
So the maximum range of normal human archers for 2 turns will remain 9?
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:00 am
by Anchar
If from the ranges there are 9 maximum, then I am for it. I never used the skill of truckers because I did not know about it, so it makes no difference to me.
Re: Raise longbowmans range - ANSWERED
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:04 am
by Alexander82
Anchar wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:57 am
Alexander82 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:04 am
Anchar wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:53 am
And what did you choose eventually. Do you want to reduce the range of archers in 2 turns by -1 and remove the skill of archers in 3 turns?
I'm basically proposing to trade tge longbowman for a dual action archer (like the elven quick archer).
So the maximum range of normal human archers for 2 turns will remain 9?
Exactly