Age of Strategy Forums

Professional_Gamer wrote:If the soviets were actually well armed and trained they wouldnt take the most casualties in the war (they always took twice the german casualties). The tactics they used were crap as well.

There was many moments:
1. Nazi's sistematically murdered all war prisoners as well as local people.
2. Nazi attaked suddenly, without declaring a war.
3. USSR wasn't completely ready for war at that time. And Nazi knew that.
The tactics we used were good to lower "casualties". We also evacuated to the Siberia and other safe places more than 2'000 fabrics!

In 1941 in first 3 days of war with Nazi German USSR also lost 40-50% of their tanks, planes, artillery.
But not only that.
Every soldier of Red army was fighting 'till the death. No prisoning. Only 0.5-1% of surronded soviet soldiers gave up to Nazi's. Everyone else fought to the death.
Also everyone in soviet army (or at least 99% of because there were some traitors) thought that "if i'll die but take with me few nazi's then for everyone else would be a bit easier" or just hold a bit them to save others. At price of their life.

You don't take into account that the war between USSR and German was for life of USSR. If we lost then there would be no more USSR, Russia, Moscow, St.-Petersburg and 80% of other cities of Russia.

samuelch wrote:Or this stats is ok for the Soviet infantries. But make the cost to 3. The Soviet will get a similar unit called Opolchenye. A 2 turn cost units with a horrible attack same hp. At the late game you can research a tech to make regular Soviet infantries cost 2 thus making opolchenye obsolete.

This isn't needed.
Soviet infantries were well trained.

So what you are telling me is that throwing men blindly in the battle just to get slaughtered is a good tactic? Thats basically all they did thats why they always took more casualties than the germans.

I don't know what did you learn...
BUT THERE WEREN'T ANY "THROWING MEN AT SLAUGHTER" OPERATIONS!

Each operation from the autumn 1941 was Carefully designed. EACH. Sometimes that took 3-5 days without sleeping.

How could the germans even lose half of their planes, artillery and tanks in the first 3 days of war? Just think of it please.

Professional_Gamer wrote:How could the germans even lose half of their planes, artillery and tanks in the first 3 days of war? Just think of it please.

Not Germans.
Soviets.

Professional_Gamer wrote:So what you are telling me is that throwing men blindly in the battle just to get slaughtered is a good tactic? Thats basically all they did thats why they always took more casualties than the germans.

Maybe the Soviet is desperate to stop enemy tanks from advancing. From wikipedia: In urban combat later in the war in eastern Germany, about 70% of tanks destroyed were hit by Panzerfäuste or Panzerschrecks.

samuelch wrote:Or this stats is ok for the Soviet infantries. But make the cost to 3. The Soviet will get a similar unit called Opolchenye. A 2 turn cost units with a horrible attack same hp. At the late game you can research a tech to make regular Soviet infantries cost 2 thus making opolchenye obsolete.

This discussion king of getting out hand,why not just go for compromise samuelch suggest? It sounds fine.

makazuwr32 wrote:

Professional_Gamer wrote:How could the germans even lose half of their planes, artillery and tanks in the first 3 days of war? Just think of it please.

Not Germans.
Soviets.

Sorry about the missunderstaning.

Everyone knows how terrible russian army was prepared in ww2. Im starting to think that you are disagreeing just because it has to do with your country.

Because there wasn't any "Opolchenie"
There were partisans who worked in occupied territory.
I am thinking how can we make them implemented.

Professional_Gamer wrote:

makazuwr32 wrote:

Professional_Gamer wrote:How could the germans even lose half of their planes, artillery and tanks in the first 3 days of war? Just think of it please.

Not Germans.
Soviets.

Sorry about the missunderstaning.

Everyone knows how terrible russian army was prepared in ww2. Im starting to think that you are disagreeing just because it has to do with your country.

We were pretty good prepared. Not on 100% but pretty good. Because if we weren't than we wouldn't win. Also better than for example France.
but still when you lost 50% of your army excluding infantries for most of armies that would be steamrolling victory for Nazi's. And Soviets still stopped and after a while defeated them.

Professional_Gamer wrote:Im starting to think that you are disagreeing just because it has to do with your country.

I'm disagreeing with because
1. I'm learning and writing dessertation about this war.
2. M Grandgrand dad on mother side and Grandgrand mother from father side were killed at this war.

makazuwr32 wrote:Because there wasn't any "Opolchenie"

From wikipedia: "The Narodnoe Opolcheniye was formed again in 1941 during the Great Patriotic War in significant numbers.[23] Sixteen divisions were formed in Moscow. Eighteen were formed in Leningrad, of which five became regular rifle divisions."

Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodnoe_Opolcheniye

samuelch wrote:

makazuwr32 wrote:Because there wasn't any "Opolchenie"

From wikipedia: "The Narodnoe Opolcheniye was formed again in 1941 during the Great Patriotic War in significant numbers.[23] Sixteen divisions were formed in Moscow. Eighteen were formed in Leningrad, of which five became regular rifle divisions."

Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodnoe_Opolcheniye

Again.
They weren't in armies on front lines.
They were in occupied territories. Known as "Partizans".

And these divisions were formed from NOT an yesterday civilians who doesn't know anything about war. These divisions were formed from former engeneers and were trained for 2 months before moving to the front.


If you want i can send you my work. Just 1k+ pages A4 format. And that only about 6 months of 1941.

I mostly read from wikipedia and the page doesn't tell much about ww2 opochenye so the arguments end here.

Partizans i think must be weaker version of normal soviet soldier (yes) but with many unique diversion abilities and when you train him he spawns randomly at map if there is no neutral TC's or near one of them if there is. Costs higher (5 or even 6 turns), can't build any fabrics and bunkers but can place for 1 turn mines, has 2 actions/turn and is completely invinsible. Can randomly spawn with at rifle, machine gun, with or without grenades. also he can have several abilities from assasins (like stealing researches, sabotage production)
Consider them as "Elite unit" of USSR because there wasn't in any other countries similar things with same amplitude.

How about just "conscripts"? Like in Coh2...

All of them were conscripts. Everyone 'till the last soldier were either conscripts or regular soldiers.
So i don't think this is needed. also thank for that.
Every man in USSR was conscript and needed to live in army for at least 1 year.

Interesting... So the user gets armor?

Should I increase at least hp of other infantry types (eg. mortars) too?

Smgs, mgs, at rifle gets the same hp as the rifleman from their nations. Bazooka gets more hp the same as Us rifleman. Pzschreck gets 36 hp.

Ok,so I'm supposed to make all infantry types besides panzershreck having as many hp as ralfiemen of their nation and sane movement penalties/bonuses?

Any increase of hp for engineers?

Midonik wrote:Ok,so I'm supposed to make all infantry types besides panzershreck having as many hp as ralfiemen of their nation and sane movement penalties/bonuses?

Yes

Midonik wrote:Any increase of hp for engineers?

All nations 15

OK,so everything,besides the albitly to hide is in and seems to work. Should I send it to Daniel? Also,think about gb infantry.

Yes. Send it. I will think gb infantry later.
How about the movement bonus and penalty?

It's in too,all infantry types (engineers too) have same movements as ralfiemens of their nation.

Already implemmented or accepted?

Looks like Daniel accept it,so if anyone doesn't oppose,I just need to send JSONs to Daniel and he will implement them.

If this is implemented artilleries unit will gain more bonus against infantries. So tanks role will be:
Light tanks= Kill infantries because it will get more bonus against infantries and able to kill infantries in 1 hit
Medium tank= Break through heavy fortification, killing mgs and mortars, killing damaged infantries, destroying buildings.

Midonik wrote:Looks like Daniel accept it,so if anyone doesn't oppose,I just need to send JSONs to Daniel and he will implement them.

Please someone summaroze changes bevause i do not know what is the final suggestion

samuelch wrote:

Final:
Us infantry
Attack:8 can be upgraded to 10
Hp: 35
Speed=3 Gets +1 speed on sand tiles.

Soviet infantry
Attack: 8
Hp: 42
Speed: 3 +1 speed on forest and snow tiles

German infantry
Attack: 10
Hp: 32
Speed=3 -1 speed on forest tiles , can't climb mountains (their elite or more powerful units won't get these 2 traits.)

Japanese Infantry
Attack: 7
Hp: 40
Speed=3

That's what I put in JSONs. Also,I have increased hp of infantry types units to same as ralfiemen of their nation and all engineers hp to 15.

Don't forget the UK! We have them inside the game. It would be best if we made new stats for them as well.