Age of Strategy Forums

the only one who produces cretan archers is the ia...right now they are pretty bad unit.
1. hp, range, attack and armour the same as a regular archer.
-cretan archers carried small round shields meaning they were melee combat units as well as archers. this should be represented as 1 melee armour or more hp.
-cretan recurved bow so the range compared to regular archers was higher (the fact that the comparision made was with regular greek shortbows could make the current range historically accuarate), and by the strengh it required to be shot, the impact of the cretan arrows was harder. having better range couldbe toomuch for the versatilitythe unit has (which is almost useless. will explain later) but higher attack compared to regular archers should be a must doing balance.
2. cost and leaving the same as mercenary longbowman
-mercenary longbowman are better in anycase : higher damage almost definitive for it:

mercenary longbowman stats
cost 2
leaving 4
hp 15
attack 7
range 7

cretan arcehr stats
cost 2
leaving 4
hp 11
attack 5
range 5

fireshot (bonus against structures+burning)
heavy (+2 vs heavy cavalry, +5 vs heavy infantry)

so the thing with the balance is that they do the same damage to heavy cavalry (7 damage) and only cretan deals 3 more damage against heavy infantry.
fire shot is actually a pretty good option for any archer,but because of the leaving effect and the CD it only can shot 2 times (the same with heavy shot) before saying good bye. meanwhile, producing a fire archer has no CD plus no leaving, and doesnt require anytech. cretan arcehr is not worth producing...

conclusion:
the only good trait cretan archer has is the fire shot, and even that is no good because of the leaving+CD.
the bad traits: is basically a common archer but with 2 abilities, one almost useless (heavy) and the other with potencial lost (fire)
being historically accuarate this would be a thougher and more deadly unit than a regular archer unit...
and yeah, the versatility doesnt work well because of the facts i said before

suggestion:
stats change:

cost 2
leaving 4
hp 16
attack 6
range 5
armour 1/0
speed 3

fire archer
-5 hp
range 5

heavy shot
-5 hp
range 5

The main problem here is that we are dealing with units from very different time periods.

They are often miles apart in technology.
Ages apart. Completely different periods.
It it would be split like that, then we would have:
- Ancient times (late bronze age, early iron age in most cultures, up to the end of iron age in some), so more or less as early as possible - from first civilisations to about 800-200 BC
chariots, many primitive units
- Classical antiquity (Classical Period) - around 800-200BC up to 400-500 AC
practically most roman and hellenic units, as well as celtic
- Dark Ages (Early Medieval Period) - 600-1000
probably most regular upgradable units (swordsman, spearman, archer)
- High Middle Ages (High Medieval Period) - 1000-1250
definitely 1st upgrades of 3 units lines, most japanese units
- Late Middle Ages (Late Medieval Period) - 1250-1500
last upgrades, gunpowder units
With some technologies that were really only discovered during renaissance (start of early modern period), but blocked earlier by cultural barrier and not technological one.

Maybe first 3 eras could be bundled together as to decrease number an make it easier.

But it's really hard to compare and make similarly balanced units from 1st to 3rd age.
That's why I only really tried to make ancient mercenaries comparable to starting units and each other.
Modern ones were balanced to the end game.

Maybe ancient ones just needs to have writing requirement removed to at least allow some usage?

Wat if ancient mercenaries also had longer leaving time, signifying they r cheaper and easier to maintain for a long time over middle age stronger mercenaries

I think the number of turns a leaving lasts can also b used in differentiating two similar cost mercenary units

Like mercenaries can b expensive in 2 ways, either higher turn cost or lower leaving turns

We can make 4 the lowest leaving turn for the most powerful and expensive mercenaries, and the cheaper and weaker it is, the higher the leaving turn

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:11 pm The main problem here is that we are dealing with units from very different time periods.

They are often miles apart in technology.
Ages apart. Completely different periods.
It it would be split like that, then we would have:
- Ancient times (late bronze age, early iron age in most cultures, up to the end of iron age in some), so more or less as early as possible - from first civilisations to about 800-200 BC
chariots, many primitive units
- Classical antiquity (Classical Period) - around 800-200BC up to 400-500 AC
practically most roman and hellenic units, as well as celtic
- Dark Ages (Early Medieval Period) - 600-1000
probably most regular upgradable units (swordsman, spearman, archer)
- High Middle Ages (High Medieval Period) - 1000-1250
definitely 1st upgrades of 3 units lines, most japanese units
- Late Middle Ages (Late Medieval Period) - 1250-1500
last upgrades, gunpowder units

actually cretan mercenaries were hired even by crusaders (the 4th crusade) ... even fighting in the fall of constantinople so...

L4cus wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:41 am actually cretan mercenaries were hired even by crusaders (the 4th crusade) ... even fighting in the fall of constantinople so...

Cretan archers as a mercenary force was probably stopped being employed as they became part of roman empire.
Although surely they were used as auxilia, so it's pretty similar.
I don't really know what happened when Crete became part of Byzantine Empire, but looking at various other dependant terrains - I doubt they would be still allowed to be used as mercenaries by foreign forces.
They probably became manpower supply for standard byzantine archers, so it may be seen as something else.

Essentially - seeing Cretan Archer unit it is quite obvious it's meant to be famous ancient mercenaries employed by mediterranean powers.
I'd skip other references if they are not precise enough.

godOfKings wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:17 pm Wat if ancient mercenaries also had longer leaving time, signifying they r cheaper and easier to maintain for a long time over middle age stronger mercenaries

I think the number of turns a leaving lasts can also b used in differentiating two similar cost mercenary units

Like mercenaries can b expensive in 2 ways, either higher turn cost or lower leaving turns

We can make 4 the lowest leaving turn for the most powerful and expensive mercenaries, and the cheaper and weaker it is, the higher the leaving turn

Good thinking.
I have changed Balearic Slingers and Cretan Archers leaving to 9 turns. Thracian Falxmen were set to 7.
Now not to forget to remove Wrting req.