Age of Strategy Forums

Is there anything that can be done about this situation?

https://ibb.co/B6PJYZj

Image shows an enemy castle that is "visible" (occasionally enemy castles are not shown even if one, two or three tiles are actually in line of sight - click on that tile and it brings up the info about the castle, it just won't show the castle itself on the map).

In this instance, I have a trebuchet (highlighted), and the only castle tile in it's range (also highlighted) is the only castle tile that is not in my LoS, therefore I cannot target the castle even though I can see it as a whole entity.

If left to auto attack, then there is a partially built tower shown by the in-game target icon that could also be targeted. A bit frustrating that sometimes things can be seen but not hit.

On a related note (perhaps this already exists), but could auto-attack prioritise the last attacked tile? To give an example -
Turn 1 - I set up a treb to attack a castle
Turn 2 - I advance a spy, sight the castle, and attack with my treb
Turn 3 - opponent kills my spy. I no longer see the castle, but I know it is there, and my dudes on the treb already have it's grid ref, but cannot attack it.

What happens next? Must we continue to sacrifice scout units to attack what we know hasn't moved? Will my treb randomly auto attack anything in range, such as a cheap skirmisher that has been sent out to act as a diversion? Is there a order of preference to auto-attack where units will target the things they do most damage to?

Or follow ai logic and only atk the unit it is best against (may b mega can have higher priority than fortified structures)

Maybe a good solution to this would be actually revealing the entire multi-tile building once you reveal one of its tiles.

Another one would be enabling an option for "blind aim", where you order your unit to fire at anywhere in its range and it fires in that tile regardless of vision or if there's a unit there (maybe with a chance for missing if you fire this way?).

The design behind low sight of ranged siege units was that they won't be used without some wort of scouts. Or main army line more on the field.
Mostly to make scouts needed and nerfing siege capability.

It could be explained, that even the most powerful siege engines are not really razing buildings to the ground, but making them hp 0 means, that they are no longer usable as a blockade nor as any functional thing. So breached, with no crew left to function.
If we see it like that, then siege attacks cannot be blind, because they would rely only on luck, while more proper attack is targeting dynamically changing inner force concentrations, key positions in good time.
E.g. you shoot somewhere around the gate, when enemy tries to repair or fortify it, making people afraid of going there.
But it's only flavour.
Engine only allows attacking a unit and bigger sized units are visible only if all of their tiles are visible.
Blind target would be theoretically possible only by adding active ability with environmental targeting (like e.g. hire), but it would need to be added for each unit separately, has limitations of effects and would be another point to balance , so imho - too much work for little effect.

As for other questions:
- AI targets auto attack based on priority and decreased by distance. Priorities that would affect siege machines are: a) can kill unit in one shot, b) (recently added) can deal significant part of hp, c) has bonus against.
- AI auto target cannot prioritize, what was attacked before, because engine doesn't save it.

it is bug auto attack can shoot into fogged parts of the map.

Yeah, I wasn't really asking for an increase to Los - it was to do with the paradox of being able to see that building but not being able to target it

b2198 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:54 pm Maybe a good solution to this would be actually revealing the entire multi-tile building once you reveal one of its tiles.

Would something along these lines be acceptable?

Re auto-attack explanations, thanks for the info Endru.

Stratego (dev) wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:02 am it is bug auto attack can shoot into fogged parts of the map.

Thanks for adding info.

Maybe I'll explain what I understood it as:

phoenixffyrnig wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:40 pm If left to auto attack, then there is a partially built tower shown by the in-game target icon that could also be targeted. A bit frustrating that sometimes things can be seen but not hit.

Bugs should not be counted on, so it doesn't matter what is AI logic.


But going back to core of topic:

phoenixffyrnig wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:22 am Yeah, I wasn't really asking for an increase to Los - it was to do with the paradox of being able to see that building but not being able to target it

b2198 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:54 pm Maybe a good solution to this would be actually revealing the entire multi-tile building once you reveal one of its tiles.

Would something along these lines be acceptable?

Mega buildings (any unit sized more than 1x1) do have some issues, but I am not sure if the mechanic explained here is really something undesirable.
What is being presented here is something quite the contrary - targetting not possible if enemy unit with size bigger than 1x1:
- at least 1 tile of this enemy is inside active sight range and is shown graphically (so at some point it was seen whole already - or was left bottom tile enough?)
- at least 1 tile is inside attack range, but none of them are in sight at the same time
Imho - you should see what is being attacked, unless it's special ability, that would probably be weaker than normal attack.
I other words - not sure though if it really should be named as issue.

Also - the change you are asking here is strictly engine related.
Engine resolves targetting (if target shield icon shows) by at least three parameters - tile targetted, unit targetted and source unit.
Some targetting (I think ability ones) doesn't process tile, but regular attack surely does.
I guess there need to be extensive checks on all levels, so finding were exactly could some check be removed is quite dangerous - changing this one small thing would risk destroying current logic and possibly creating some bugs.
As bugs can be hidden quite well and later devastating in effect I'd not touch it if the effect is meagre, not even discussing when it's desirability is debatable.
I see no reason to believe stratego - being as busy, as he is - would attempt it.

But I recall rebuilding targetting logic as something to be done in future being mentioned.
So one day it could be like that - or maybe totally opposite - that only part of the building would be visible graphically.
Although I am not sure if I remember/understood it right if it's really planned.

In this instance I see only bottom right tile from the south. This was enough to "reveal" the whole castle, often though, two visible tiles won't reveal the castle.

It is also possible to see 5 out of 6 tiles of the castle and not be able to target the 6th.

I orchestrated this scenario in a game to illustrate that this can sometimes (ie the whole mega-building is revealed, but the target-able square is not in LoS therefore not attack-able) because it just seemed weird to me. I would consider it definitely an anomaly (if not an issue) but if it's no problem to your mind fair enough.

Of course being aware of this I had other scouts in readiness to sight my tile, just wanted to demonstrate what sometimes happens and raise the question.