Age of Strategy Forums

The human hovering artillery in its current state is frankly oppressive. It is very mobile due to its hovering, but gets the same benefits as the regular rocket artillery. With the techs improving the accuracy, and benefiting from both 3-step techs, it becomes the #1 late game unit. Being locked behind hovering tech doesn't pose enough of an compensation.

What I suggest is simply nerfing its range from 4 to 3 tiles.

Like this it would still remain a useful unit, but give some meaning to the other artillery variants. The shorter range, additionally, would counteract the late game stacking / spamming of hovering rocket artilleries, as it would make them more susceptible to counters.
(Side note: Imo, it's not a problem that rep plasma artillery would then have a bigger range. That's the only artillery unit of reptilians, plus it doesn't get any accuracy or power range boosts.)

It's doesn't seem sensfully to me for the same rocket launcher to have less range when mounted on a hover vehicle. If we were to nerf it, I'd rather increase the cost or decrease the hp of the hover rocket.

I've been thinking about nerfing all rocket artillery by making it able to only either attack or move, like the balistic missiles launcher.

Midonik wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:15 pm It's doesn't seem sensfully to me for the same rocket launcher to have less range when mounted on a hover vehicle. If we were to nerf it, I'd rather increase the cost or decrease the hp of the hover rocket.

Does the hovering launcher have to be considered the exact same model as the non-hovering one? Even if so, maybe it can be argued that due to the high mobility of the hover version and toughness of staying in position when shooting, its precision goes down to an insensible rate at far range - ergo the unit's range is shorter.
Similarly, a base damage reduction by 1 dmg (from 6 to 5) could be argued. In any way, this unit NEEDS some sort of a nerf. I think I made a pretty good case for a range decrease in the initial post though.

I've been thinking about nerfing all rocket artillery by making it able to only either attack or move, like the balistic missiles launcher.

If you were going to do this, you should probably apply this massive mechanics change to ALL mobile artillery units, except AA:
toxin, plasma artilleries, and venom crawler.
However, I fear this bringing the balancing too much out of control, significantly shifting the power to big fat tanks, which some races are dominating at while others suck.

And which race do they suck? In my opinion, it would be good if heavy tanks would be applicable.

What I mean is that each race has their defined strengths and weaknesses (see in-game help menu) . For humans, artilleries are considered one strength. So, by nerfing all artilleries, the balance of strengths / weaknesses between the races would get shifted, the human race losing one of its perks.

In my opinion, human tanks do not suck, especially considering that they are accelerated by technology from mega buildings (are they still accelerating or not already?), I completely agree that against the background of flying artillery, they fade into the background.

This topic is about artilleries though.

@Midonik
This still remains a dire topic. The hovering rocket artillery deserves some kind of nerf - be it my idea of range, or be it dmg, or hp. One of those I'd consider suitable.
I don't want to be winning with humans late game just because of this unit.

I'm fine decreasing the hp of the hover one. I'd prefer to give all rocket artillery the perk mentioned before tho.

Midonik wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:32 pm I'm fine decreasing the hp of the hover one.

I suggest 22hp.

I'd prefer to give all rocket artillery the perk mentioned before tho.

1) If you choose so, rather give it to ALL existing (vehicle, non AA) artilleries. The concept of ranged aoe units is op in itself. Giving it to all similar artillery would still hurt humans the most, while picking rocket artillery exclusively would be illogical and a bit too much.

2) Instead of making them move OR shoot - which boringly kills all dynamic play - if you want to nerf artillery in general: I recommend a simple global range nerf by -1. Or maybe a minimum range increase so they really suck in close combat terrain.
The only reason why artillery dominates is their huge range which makes them spammable/uncounterable. Adjusting the archetype by its root is the way to go imo.

If we were to globally decrease the range of all artillery, then what about mortars?

I feel mortars could stay at same range, as they aren't oppressive rn. If you are saying they would interfere - mortar is an infantry, without aoe dmg. I don't see any major problem with them and artillery having similar range. If you decrease it to 2 for mortars, they become too similar to support inf.

I don't think it makes sense for mortars to have the same base range (so 3) as rocket artillery though.

Probably a range of 2 for mortars would be fine as well. Perhaps buff dmg /hp to compensate a bit.

I don't think it would, no. That make them the same range as snipers and support weapons.

Well then leave them at 3 range lol
I'm not too concerned about two different unit types having same range (mortar/artillery). As I said, they work for different purposes.

I am concerned though, it doesn't make logical sense for mortars to shoot as far as rocket artillery. Look similar period weapons up, there's around a 2 km difference in range.

Similarly, it seems weird for assault artillery vehicles to have to choose between moving and shooting. It kind of works for the heavy siege ballistic ones, but here it just goes against the dynamics of the unit type imo.
Might still be the best option for a soft nerf though... But would contradict a bit your philosophy of the rule of logic in this game.

Only alternative I see would be a simply global -1 dmg to mentioned artilleries (mobile rocket, hovering rocket, plasma, toxin artilleries, venom crawler).

We'll have to see how it goes with the nerf only to rocket artilleries. The reptilian plasma one is equally as powerful when being spammed. Less accurate and smaller splash, but faster and tankier.

The reptilian plasma artillery requires a ton of research tho, and has lower base damage.