Age of Strategy Forums

This unit is almost never trained in MP. Not to exaggerate, since it has very little usage: to slow movement with a set of chances and from a very fragile range for its value, if any.

Sure, siege mantlet and siege tower may come to play. And having it sitting around inside just to do nothing, or waiting any unit rushes to both siege unit? Against zerks it may be considerable, yet not many effective as once zerk is handled, no much usage of it anymore (unless it is a continuous zerk rush). Against infantry there are so many unit can fill the role, mainly celtic warrior both inside or even outside siege matlet and siege tower. To slow cavalry? There is a considerable miss chance for unit with high hp for throwing net, isn't it? And why one needs to slow while one could invest, with the same turn, one cavalry killer?

So I suggest:
1. Reduce cost to 2 turn (or is it already?).
2. Increase range. And if reality of "How one could throw net that far?" is hitted, by the same logic I say, "And how one could throw multiple poisons (and could still be used eventhough it is already thrown to dirt) from that far? And a flame in an arrow that never eats it up? Those who could mount but cannot dismount? A steedless wagon? Or consuming some sort of drugs that makes one insanely strong? And many more...
3. Increase net throwing chance against higher hp unit.

Stay awesome!

Agreed. Increase range to 3 would get my vote.

I think removing chance altogether would be much better.

Puss_in_Boots wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:05 am I think removing chance altogether would be much better.

I agree.

I may propose additional way to enhance it:
Remove action cost for its ability and add (if ability does not have) some cooldown. So unit can throw net for free in addition to attack.

makazuwr32 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:21 am I may propose additional way to enhance it:
Remove action cost for its ability and add (if ability does not have) some cooldown. So unit can throw net for free in addition to attack.

It would actually nerf this unit.
It's categorised as melee, but with really weak attack.
Aside from some special usage in campaigns - it's pure debuffer.
But is affected by double action buffs, which gives him additional cast.

Puss_in_Boots wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:05 am I think removing chance altogether would be much better.

I'd implement it without chance, as I don't like randomness, but it's supposed to be weaker towards cavalry and not affecting elephants that mich, but I don't know of a way to affect 3 different categories of units by 3 different effects using one cast.
If I new one - it would work with 67% effectiveness on cav and only 34% on elephants.

Aral_Yaren wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:38 pm This unit is almost never trained in MP. Not to exaggerate, since it has very little usage: to slow movement with a set of chances and from a very fragile range for its value, if any.

Sure, siege mantlet and siege tower may come to play. And having it sitting around inside just to do nothing, or waiting any unit rushes to both siege unit? Against zerks it may be considerable, yet not many effective as once zerk is handled, no much usage of it anymore (unless it is a continuous zerk rush). Against infantry there are so many unit can fill the role, mainly celtic warrior both inside or even outside siege matlet and siege tower. To slow cavalry? There is a considerable miss chance for unit with high hp for throwing net, isn't it? And why one needs to slow while one could invest, with the same turn, one cavalry killer?

So I suggest:
1. Reduce cost to 2 turn (or is it already?).
2. Increase range. And if reality of "How one could throw net that far?" is hitted, by the same logic I say, "And how one could throw multiple poisons (and could still be used eventhough it is already thrown to dirt) from that far? And a flame in an arrow that never eats it up? Those who could mount but cannot dismount? A steedless wagon? Or consuming some sort of drugs that makes one insanely strong? And many more...
3. Increase net throwing chance against higher hp unit.

Stay awesome!

Actually - it is not supposed to be seen in much usage.
It was made not to be competitive addition, but something, that can be produced in dock to slow down land invasion (even if only by single unnoticed unit). Especially versus melee units, that could easily destroy factories.

1. Cost 2 was considered, but increased to 3 to avoid being too competitive.
2. Again - lowered to avoid being too useful.
Also a note - this seems like a festival of representations being taken literally. And unit as group of people should always be considered (imho taken as default real thing behind name unit).
And then the question becomes "what could be the real effect of a group of people mostly consisted of fishermen, dock workers and sailors are on a group of military men - e.g. armored footmen, cavalry or few war elephants".
Both 2 and 3 makes some sense - 2 range is considered extended melee or heavy throws - 3-5 meters, 3 range - throwing range - e.g. like 15m. Plus stepping out can also be considered as range increase.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:55 pm

Puss_in_Boots wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:05 am I think removing chance altogether would be much better.

I'd implement it without chance, as I don't like randomness, but it's supposed to be weaker towards cavalry and not affecting elephants that mich, but I don't know of a way to affect 3 different categories of units by 3 different effects using one cast.
If I new one - it would work with 67% effectiveness on cav and only 34% on elephants.

Not sure if it helps but... You can apply multiple different effects via single ability and each may have unique set of possible targets.
Alas it will still share spell chance i think.

makazuwr32 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:02 pm Not sure if it helps but... You can apply multiple different effects via single ability and each may have unique set of possible targets.
Alas it will still share spell chance i think.

Could name them "Throw net", "Throw net weak" and "Throw net weakest", to go in similar lines as anti-mounted effects.

Making a non useful unit is even worse than having a one-shooter or even overpowered unit, imho.

But having neither is even better.

makazuwr32 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:02 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:55 pm

Puss_in_Boots wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:05 am I think removing chance altogether would be much better.

I'd implement it without chance, as I don't like randomness, but it's supposed to be weaker towards cavalry and not affecting elephants that mich, but I don't know of a way to affect 3 different categories of units by 3 different effects using one cast.
If I new one - it would work with 67% effectiveness on cav and only 34% on elephants.

Not sure if it helps but... You can apply multiple different effects via single ability and each may have unique set of possible targets.
Alas it will still share spell chance i think.

I am pretty sure you cannot.
I specifically asked for such option in code change requests.

Related effect is only executed if original effect was applied.

Aral_Yaren wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:19 pm Making a non useful unit is even worse than having a one-shooter or even overpowered unit, imho.

I strongly disagree.
Underpowered unit will not be used and some players may feel like they wasted gems on getting that.

Overpowered unit may break the game - totally change the meta around having this unit.
It can deprecate similar units.
Different counter units are used then.
Games can become boring having 1 unit almost obligatory to have.

b2198 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 7:06 pm

makazuwr32 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:02 pm Not sure if it helps but... You can apply multiple different effects via single ability and each may have unique set of possible targets.
Alas it will still share spell chance i think.

Could name them "Throw net", "Throw net weak" and "Throw net weakest", to go in similar lines as anti-mounted effects.

Anti mounted effects are normal or weak depending on unit using it, not target.
They are just given on the start like that.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:19 am Anti mounted effects are normal or weak depending on unit using it, not target.
They are just given on the start like that.

Yeah, I know, I was suggesting those names to give all 3 of them to net thrower, with the normal affecting most units, weak only affecting mounted, and weakest only elephants, if it could be done.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:19 am

makazuwr32 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:02 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:55 pm
I'd implement it without chance, as I don't like randomness, but it's supposed to be weaker towards cavalry and not affecting elephants that mich, but I don't know of a way to affect 3 different categories of units by 3 different effects using one cast.
If I new one - it would work with 67% effectiveness on cav and only 34% on elephants.

Not sure if it helps but... You can apply multiple different effects via single ability and each may have unique set of possible targets.
Alas it will still share spell chance i think.

I am pretty sure you cannot.
I specifically asked for such option in code change requests.

Related effect is only executed if original effect was applied.

But wait, couldn't you do the opposite then?

Have the weakest effect as the primary, and it affects all flesh and blood units, and the related ones being the weaker (which would add with the weakest), which only affects mounted non-elephant units, and the normal, which affects all non-mounted flesh and blood units (and would add with the weakest too).

b2198 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:49 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:19 am

makazuwr32 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:02 pm Not sure if it helps but... You can apply multiple different effects via single ability and each may have unique set of possible targets.
Alas it will still share spell chance i think.

I am pretty sure you cannot.
I specifically asked for such option in code change requests.

Related effect is only executed if original effect was applied.

But wait, couldn't you do the opposite then?

Have the weakest effect as the primary, and it affects all flesh and blood units, and the related ones being the weaker (which would add with the weakest), which only affects mounted non-elephant units, and the normal, which affects all non-mounted flesh and blood units (and would add with the weakest too).

That should work.
Only because earlier conditions are inclusive to later ones.

When only first one would have indicator it should work quite fine.
I'll try it.