Age of Strategy Forums

i suggest rising its range to 2
i also mentioned some changes for the strong fire effect

L4cus wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:22 pm Strong Fire rework
affects: burnables, flesh and blood
duration 8 (3 more turns than regular burning)
hp -4
bonuses
+50% vs building, birdge, siege machine, ship
+75% vs great ship
+1775% vs mega building
+25% vs heavy clothed

But fire ships do have range 2

omg! they do have 2 range! T_T

still seeming really weak for their cost
they cant resist multiple hits from any other ship, i suggest rising their armour and p armour
current armour is 0/3, i suggest 1/5 so it would be more competitive

Yeah, with the fire damage vs megas nerf, I think they could use some buff, at least in resistance, so that they aren't as one-use as they are right now (for one-use, demolishion ship is considerably better)

Their upgrade plus researching ship hull tech raises hp to nearly 60, u can use them as anti triremes, turtle ships or galleons, they r like the pikemen of the seas

triremes are faster, and in melee fire siphpon ships just drown...maybe if u get some advantage researching those techs first, but if the opponent has those techs as well, there migh be nothing u can do...

L4cus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:45 pm i also mentioned some changes for the strong fire effect

L4cus wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:22 pm Strong Fire rework
affects: burnables, flesh and blood
duration 8 (3 more turns than regular burning)
hp -4
bonuses
+50% vs building, birdge, siege machine, ship
+75% vs great ship
+1775% vs mega building
+25% vs heavy clothed

If in your opinion Greekfire Siphon Ship is bad, then why do you propose to nerf it against ships?

Proposed rework makes it deal only 6 damage/turn vs regular ships, while currently it deals 12/turn.
+60% lasting doesn't really help.

Instead we'll get totally useless for 2 range ship lasting damage against flesh and blood, which doesn't really make much sense.


As for if it even is good or bad really depends on situation.
Vs 1 trireme - it looses, as it's 33 hp and 24 + 12/turn damage vs 53 hp, 41 damage
If being attacked - quick 1 shot destruction, otherwise if siphon attacks first it would be loose too, but only if enemy can repair trireme in 2 turns, or else it's a tie.
Vs any few ships very unfortunately placed and no access to repair in 1-3 turns it could be said to be OP.

Take e.g. unaware enemy with ships placed like that:
empty trireme
trireme galley galley
empty trireme

And such formation just got close to your dock, when siphon ship finishes.
2 galleys destroyed in 1 shot and time ticking for burn to destroy 3 triremes.
Totally OP!

So while it could use some adjustment either in speed or resistance - "really bad" doesn't speak truth.

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:29 pm

L4cus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:45 pm i also mentioned some changes for the strong fire effect

L4cus wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:22 pm Strong Fire rework
affects: burnables, flesh and blood
duration 8 (3 more turns than regular burning)
hp -4
bonuses
+50% vs building, birdge, siege machine, ship
+75% vs great ship
+1775% vs mega building
+25% vs heavy clothed

If in your opinion Greekfire Siphon Ship is bad, then why do you propose to nerf it against ships?

Proposed rework makes it deal only 6 damage/turn vs regular ships, while currently it deals 12/turn.
+60% lasting doesn't really help.

Instead we'll get totally useless for 2 range ship lasting damage against flesh and blood, which doesn't really make much sense.

no no, u are missunderstanding, when i say strong fire, i dont talk about the pasive arma effect, but the effect that sticks on the damaged unit, i still want to conservate the regular burning effect along with it

and well, at least against ranged ships and defesive buildings fire siphon ship really suffers, thats why i suggeted a +1 to p armour
but yeah, didnt think about tha fact that it would be so deadly

Fire siphon is a 5 turn ship so it shouldnt b so op that it can almost 1shot a 6 turn trireme, it also works well in combo with a boarding ships hook

it goes well behind another ship, like pikemen behind spartan hoplite or another tanky unit, thats a 2 range unit for u

actually i think turtle ship fits that tanky role since its the most resistant ship with the same speed so fire siphon ship wont go in the front

L4cus wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:42 pm

Endru1241 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:29 pm

L4cus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:45 pm i also mentioned some changes for the strong fire effect

If in your opinion Greekfire Siphon Ship is bad, then why do you propose to nerf it against ships?

Proposed rework makes it deal only 6 damage/turn vs regular ships, while currently it deals 12/turn.
+60% lasting doesn't really help.

Instead we'll get totally useless for 2 range ship lasting damage against flesh and blood, which doesn't really make much sense.

no no, u are missunderstanding, when i say strong fire, i dont talk about the pasive arma effect, but the effect that sticks on the damaged unit, i still want to conservate the regular burning effect along with it

and well, at least against ranged ships and defesive buildings fire siphon ship really suffers, thats why i suggeted a +1 to p armour
but yeah, didnt think about tha fact that it would be so deadly

So then it doesn't change much, apart of lasting.
Regular fire lasts already 5 turns, so it kind of forces repair if two are applied at once, so it wouldn't help much.

Then the only change is not really very logical poison like effect for flesh and blood units.
Main attack ignores armor, so in a way already represents destructive damage to the flesh.
I saw original topic when this was proposed and I know exactly why - for ground unit usage.