Age of Strategy Forums

Lack of effective sieges for elves, undead, and possibly lizards.

To me, this is one of two reasons why undead are mostly mediocre (the other, being their ranged weakness, but that's on a larger scale...). Dwarves and humans will always be the strongest as they have strong towers at 9 range and parallel sieges at 12-14 max range. Due to 9 ranges, more than one swordsman under fire from several towers (and archers who sit inside them) will not reach them without a wagon (as for the wagon, it is also not cheap and goes to death after a zerg rush), battering rams are also not so effective during a siege ( rather effective at protecting centers).I think that the undead should have been given a normal long-range siege unit at 9+ for a long time, given the mediocre defense, (and not turn everything upside down, nerfing all the towers in a row) what is there now in the siege of the undead is garbage, of course some will say that it is unique gameplay, but in order to be on equal terms against a human, you have to be too abstruse. I already suggested giving a lich (or making a separate mage) a fireball at 9+ range.

As for the elves, their siege (which used to be normal) in the form of a stone-thrower treant is very outdated and needs to be accelerated and longer range.

To be honest, I don’t know what the lizards have with the siege.

What do you think about this? Personally, I like the skirmishes of humans and dwarves (their towers and anti-towers), and I am also against making restrictions on the towers (I like to build tower defenses, and not count the numbers in the calculator how many towers I have left and at what angle the cell in the cell to me place them to win)

Exactly how is ent demolisher out-dated? It has at max range 10, and will be getting other techs that allows it to apply an effect on structures that builds up over time (and multiplies by itself)

Undead have none catapults which will be getting RNG upgrades as well, so 8 rng will be 10 rng max. (Plus some damage boost too)

Right, as for scaledfolks they have caustic dragons which are rather powerful also, since they're actually rather tough but are limited in ranged, max 8.

This is because they're actually a rather tough siege unit on scaledfolks side, and later they're getting caustic salamanders also on the cheaper end.

Already 10? There were 9 maximum.

As an undead player, I agree that there is a lack of good seige options. The bone catapult has only 7 range meaning that it is outranged by firetowers and has equal range to fortress. Considering how it cannot attack after moving, that leaves it very vulnerable and if you are against scaledfolks, you will probably find it burning to death in the next turn

Anchar wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:33 pm Already 10? There were 9 maximum.

Does elf siege have 7 range and 3 range upg?

Ent demolisher has 7 RNG, with 3 techs to increase both rng and attack. Max rng 10, Max dmg 60.

Bone catapult has currently rng 8, Max dmg 45.

I think you're referring to monster ballista who has rng 7, and 4 speed. It can also shoot and move at the same time.

Anyway, all this aside,

Scaledfolks
Undead
Elves

All aren't the best in siege intentionally, as that's not necessarily they're areas of expertise.

Scalefolk dragon is also quite nice siege option since it can move and attack in the same turn unlike most ranged siege units. So reduced damage is required.

Ent demolisher is good enough for siege. Especially if count that ents later will get tech locked ability to get +2 movement speed at cost of action, no counter spec action and -100 both armors, lasts 2 turns. No cooldown so you can even use it each turn.

Undeads indeed are worst in terms of normal siege units but later they will get several unique to them caster siege units who can terrorize enemy buildings with debuffs, deal to them significant amounts of damage and even disable (curse specifically will not affect buildings anymore). And one of them will be invisible! So even if their siege had range 2 only it will be enough when buildings (and even units inside them) will be disabled.

Also, I'd like to point out that certain subs can actually fill in these areas as well, similar to how orcs get long range siege units from there savages sub.

However it would have to be within reason of course, for example, dwarven mortar is the only siege unit who is allowed 14 range, as that's already pushing it on most maps.

Well mortar is vsry costly to upgrade especially lately and it has without techs for extra actions below average damage (for siege).

pleae others confirm if this is a balance problem

Scalefolks have got acid spitter and acid dragon.

Elves — only problem is that ents are their only ranged siege unit right now. Working on new unit.

Undeads — already in work one extra siege for them.

Dwarves — they have range 8, 10 and 14 for their maxed light cannons, heavy cannons and mortars respectively.
And due to changes we made for mortar (it gains extra actions via separate tech now) it is not that op. Alas might increase cost for some techs required to level them up.

@Vladneral
@Aral_Yaren

u also see it as balance problem?

The most problem for ud is dwarf mega building. Against that - advise to use mummies or demolishers. All other buildings not a hard problem.

Right now on not large maps all races could break enemy defence easily without siege use at all.

So problem here more not in siege weapons but just in carton buildings that could be destroyed by arrows.

Would be better here concentrate on building update - no need fast fixes.

buildings update will be a while to make.

so if here is any problem we need to act now.

if there is no problem than good!

no need fast fixes.

this one seems you and Makaw say no problem for now, good! i close it.