New tech: Reach IMPLEMENTED

[Alexander82]

I've taken this one from d&d
reach allows units armed with a polearm to increase their melee range to 2
Unit with spears are usually less stronger than those armed with swords or maces but they might compensate that with reache, that would allow them to attack from the 2nd line
That would also give more options for that kind of unit that just "anti-cavalry".
That might be also extended to AoF units

[ejm29]

I kind of like it, but wouldn't this let spear armed units attack units that are behind walls, across from rivers and over mountains?

[Alexander82]

About walls that should be discussed
About rivers i think that it couldn't be possible because the borders also add tiles to the distance.
Btw also archers right now can shoot across the mountains, so that shouldn't be such problem

[ejm29]

Rivers: Ah! I didnt think of that! That should be fine.
Mountains: Yes, but archers are ranged (so in a slightly over the top kind of way) they could "volley" over the mountains, as they could with walls. But spearmen would be completely unable. Unless they throw their spears

[Alexander82]

I know, but i think this is mostly something that should be "changed" in the game engine.
If you think about it, even walls was often high enough to defend from arrows (or at leat arrows volleying inside couldn't hit you if you were close to a wall)

[ejm29]

Very true, I think there was a post about it. But it would be a big and very time consuming change for Daniel. So I doubt it will be changed any time soon but i think this is a cool idea if a work-around can be found for the problems, or if/when the gane engine is changed.

[Stratego (dev)]

i like it!

ok, so as i understand:
1. a new tech that will affect spearmen, and halberdier only.
2. will be invented in advancements center
3. when invented spearmen, and halberdier will get +1 range to attack with the spear.

problems:
- what should be the animation of the attack? (by default the unit image would move over the enemy like it does now (but now only for adjacent)
- how much turn it is cost to invent it?
- is it dependent to other tech?
- also we need an image for the tech.

[TheBluePhoenix]

I think it should take 5 turns
And it should be independant on other techs logically speaking
Animation should be like a direct hit with a pole thing over the adjoining unit. I dont even know if this is possible
Image should be a pole with a spearhead attached

[Alexander82]

1. i was thinking that for any unit with a long weapon, so we might conside making it affect also lancer and heavy lancer, but also future units that use spiked chains, halberd-like weapons like the shogun guard, or extremely long blades
2. sounds good
3. of course

Problems:
- Just make the spearman move to the enemy or we might draw a spear-like item to reach the target
- I think 6 would be fair
- I don't think so, it's just some sort of special training
- i can try making one

[TheBluePhoenix]

Try reading my suggestions too alex

[ejm29]

Logically speaking, lancers probably should not have reach. As they are already using the full length of their weapons to hit from horse back. Also a longer weapon might be a little hard to balance while riding a horse.

[Alexander82]

Well, if a knight (armed with sword) can attack at range 1, a lance (wich is longer) should be able to go past another unit.

[Darkknight]

Problems:
- Just make the spearman move to the enemy or we might draw a spear-like item to reach the target

What is a spearman? Is it the pikemen or the skirmisher

[Alexander82]

Pikeman

[Darkknight]

Making it have 2 range could be too powerful so maybe when it attacks a enemy 2 tiles away its attack will reduce? (If it is possible to make it like that)

[ejm29]

Fair enought. I just think that because the length of a Lance is only 10-12 feet long while a pike is 10-25 feet, the difference should be noticeable. That put together with the hight of the horse, I thought that either the lancer should not benefit fron reach, or foot units armed with pike like weapons should have there range upp'ed to 3 instead of 2 (which is OP in my opinion) but im probably wrong (im not great at unit stats)

[Alexander82]

possible images

[TheBluePhoenix]

Good

[Alexander82]

Daniel, do you like the images or would you prefer something different?

[Alexander82]

here is a polearm, as you asked by mail

[Alexander82]

Daniel, what do you think?

[RiverRaider 1097]

Totally Agree, Great Idea!

[Alexander82]

new icon

[Alpha]

I love this idea, This would make spear man be more effective

[DoomCarrot]

Not trying to be cynical. but I see a problem with this based on past discussions.

A while ago, I suggested walls/fortresses block range of sight from archers and such. Daniel said that this was not a good idea/too time consuming. Aka could not be implemented.

However, this is clearly something that absolutely needs to be implemented if this tech is to work. Just my two cents on this.

[Alexander82]

The line of sight stopping arrows is more important for me. Sometimes ranged really own too much melee. This wouldn't make this more needed imho.

[aditya]

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[DoomCarrot]

Some things that still need clarification:

1. Do lancers get bonus? If so, this teach needs to cost more than 5-6 turns imo, as normal cavalry will be almost useless.
2. Will this be able to hit over walls, buildings, rocks, cliffs, etc?

[Midonik]

1 I dont think it should
2 Hope no but it can be hard to make (mayby just make units with range lower than 3 cant do it,with higer can. I think it can be more easy)

[TheBluePhoenix]

I think it should have the same animation as tht of ballista