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Lich redesign
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:55 pm
by Typhoon
Liches are fearful and powerful undead mages whose are using their magic to keep their army and themselve alive.
But right now they are really fragile units that can easily die. In answer I would like to introduce 2 main concepts of change. They are similar yet diffrent
Makazuwr32's Concept
Cost - 6 turns
Hp - 14
Attack - 3
Range - 1
Armor - 0/3
Speed - 2
Sight - 8
Spell resist - 40%
Abilities:
-Convert
-Hell of pain by sacrifice
-Raise dead
-Summon skeleton dragon
-
http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewt ... d6e#p72917
-Mind corruption - unit becomes neutral hostile, gains 200% spell resist, +1 action. 30% chance, cooldown - 4 turns.
My concept
Cost -6
Hp -18
Attack power -5
range- 1
armor -0/3
speed -2
sight -5
Spell resist -50%
Spells:
-Raise dead
-Summon undead dragon
-Life drain: deals 6 damage and gives 6 hp to user
-Pain and hit
-Hell of pain by sacrifice
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:10 pm
by Lynx Shafir
1)Hp upgrade surely needed.
Sight 6-at least.
why increase cost. ?
2)may consider the extra skills for an upgrade version. (Lich King)
3 Life siphon/drain sounds good instead of "pain and hit" - may Heal self only according to the dmg dealt - I suggested once a similar effect.
4)there is a "shadow trickery" skill suggestion - not accepted - allow to turn invisible.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:14 pm
by StormSaint373
StormSaint's Concept
Cost: 8
Hp: 24
Att: 6
Range: 1
Vision: 8
Armor/Pierce: 0/3
Speed: 2
Action/turn: 3
Spell Resistance: 100%
Spells:
Animate Dead: range 10
Summon Skeletal Dragon
Hell of pain by Sacrifice
Rotten: range 6
Shadow Trickery (if implemented)
Dominate: 50% convert
NOTE: even with 100% spell Resistance, they are still affected by AOE Fireball, thunderstorm, dragon's breath, etc.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:24 pm
by Typhoon
Lynx Shafir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:10 pm
1)Hp upgrade surely needed.
Sight 6-at least.
why increase cost. ?
Yes
I will think about that
Because its no longer that easy to kill
Lynx Shafir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:10 pm
2)may consider the extra skills for an upgrade version. (Lich King)
If we are going to upgrade him someday I would prefer name Archlich
Lynx Shafir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:10 pm
3 Life siphon/drain sounds good instead of "pain and hit" - may Heal self only according to the dmg dealt - I suggested once a similar effect.
I would like to keep pain and hit so lich may use it when he's already full on health
Lynx Shafir wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:10 pm
4)there is a "shadow trickery" skill suggestion - not accepted - allow to turn invisible.
Yes unfortunately
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:28 pm
by Lynx Shafir
Could sby post here the Lich img. Pls
I'd try an illusion form on it
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:35 am
by makazuwr32
Typhoon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:55 pm
Makazuwr32's Concept
Cost - 6 turns
Hp - 14
Attack - 3
Range - 1
Armor - 0/3
Speed - 2
Sight - 8
Spell resist - 40%
Abilities:
-Convert
-Hell of pain by sacrifice
-Raise dead
-Summon skeleton dragon
-
Shadow trickery
-Mind corruption - unit becomes neutral hostile, gains 200% spell resist, +1 action. 30% chance, cooldown - 4 turns.
Reasons for each thing:
1. Cost increase: lich gains higher hp and pierce armor, researchable skill shadow trickery and overall becomes one of the toughest casters to kill.
2. Most his spells are still saved but replaced hit and pain with shadow trickery and added Mind corruption. 6 spells in total. Hell of pain by sacrifice is one of the most powerful single target damaging spells and i want to keep that.
3. No "lich king" and other lich upgrades. "Lich king" name is trademarked by Blizzard.
StormSaint373 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:14 pm
StormSaint's Concept
Cost: 5
Hp: 24
Att: 6
Range: 1
Vision: 8
Armor/Pierce: 0/3
Speed: 2
Action/turn: 3
Spell Resistance: 100%
Spells:
Animate Dead: range 10
Summon Skeletal Dragon
Hell of pain by Sacrifice
Rotten: range 5
Shadow Trickery (if implemented)
Dominate: 100% convert, cooldown 2
NOTE: even with 100% spell Resistance, they are still affected by AOE Fireball, thunderstorm, dragon's breath, etc.
Your concept is too op for 5 turn cost caster unit.
1. Too high hp for 5 turn caster. Max hp is 15. Or increase cost to 6.
2. Even more range increase for raise dead on lich doesn't need.
3. Dominate with 100% convert is op. It will ignore any spell resist if it is not 100% so
NO.
4. What is "rotten"?
5. Spell resist 100% also op for him. He is caster and doesn't need high spell resist. Also it is even more high for 5 turn caster.
In total if you want to keep that concept than increase cost to 7 or even 8 turns.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:01 pm
by StormSaint373
makazuwr32 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:35 am
Typhoon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:55 pm
Makazuwr32's Concept
Cost - 6 turns
Hp - 14
Attack - 3
Range - 1
Armor - 0/3
Speed - 2
Sight - 8
Spell resist - 40%
Abilities:
-Convert
-Hell of pain by sacrifice
-Raise dead
-Summon skeleton dragon
-
Shadow trickery
-Mind corruption - unit becomes neutral hostile, gains 200% spell resist, +1 action. 30% chance, cooldown - 4 turns.
Reasons for each thing:
1. Cost increase: lich gains higher hp and pierce armor, researchable skill shadow trickery and overall becomes one of the toughest casters to kill.
2. Most his spells are still saved but replaced hit and pain with shadow trickery and added Mind corruption. 6 spells in total. Hell of pain by sacrifice is one of the most powerful single target damaging spells and i want to keep that.
3. No "lich king" and other lich upgrades. "Lich king" name is trademarked by Blizzard.
StormSaint373 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:14 pm
StormSaint's Concept
Cost: 5
Hp: 24
Att: 6
Range: 1
Vision: 8
Armor/Pierce: 0/3
Speed: 2
Action/turn: 3
Spell Resistance: 100%
Spells:
Animate Dead: range 10
Summon Skeletal Dragon
Hell of pain by Sacrifice
Rotten: range 5
Shadow Trickery (if implemented)
Dominate: 100% convert, cooldown 2
NOTE: even with 100% spell Resistance, they are still affected by AOE Fireball, thunderstorm, dragon's breath, etc.
Your concept is too op for 5 turn cost caster unit.
1. Too high hp for 5 turn caster. Max hp is 15. Or increase cost to 6.
2. Even more range increase for raise dead on lich doesn't need.
3. Dominate with 100% convert is op. It will ignore any spell resist if it is not 100% so
NO.
4. What is "rotten"?
5. Spell resist 100% also op for him. He is caster and doesn't need high spell resist. Also it is even more high for 5 turn caster.
In total if you want to keep that concept than increase cost to 7 or even 8 turns.
1, 3. Edited
2, 5. The Lich is supposed to be among the most powerful of spellcasters due to their eons of study and mastery of magic. Liches are frail, they need some kind of resilience.
4. Troll Shamans have it, 10 points of damage to a target.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:09 pm
by makazuwr32
I'll prefer my variant over Stormsaint's.
Reasons:
1. Similar to current lich but with stats increase. Won't affect MUCH any campains and maps.
2. Not so big cost increase. Undeads still need other units for training early. But 8 turn cost is too much.
3. 3 actions/turn for caster is too much. For lich with summon dragon even more. Too op stats.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:13 pm
by StormSaint373
I understand, but lose the mind corruption 4 something else. Liches need minions not people or monsters that will turn on him.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:24 pm
by makazuwr32
Hm. I will think about.
Maybe something chilling.....
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:31 pm
by makazuwr32
What do you think about this:
Chilling touch:
Like enchant burning but can be applied only to your/allied melee units (not to caster itself or to archers). Applies to enchanted unit "Chilling weapon" passive on-hit effect for 2 turns - reduces speed by -1 and defence by -1/-1, non-stackable. 1 turn cooldown. Casting range - 5.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:06 pm
by LordOfAles
What about chillwave? Inflicts damage and slowness.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:08 pm
by StormSaint373
Twoulld be best to Leave cold to Cyromancer.
Focus on necromany for undead.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:01 pm
by LordOfAles
Liches were never weak in fantasy. Quite the opposite, they were one of most fearful undead to exit. The current lich is simply...how to say... Completely fragile and barely useful. My concept is to make it like a battlemage, something liches usually are. I really hate this Warcraft oriented lich.
Cost: 7
Attack: 13
Hp: 42
Speed: 3
Sight: 6
Armor: 0/5
Spell resistance: 100%
Action/Turn: 1
Bonuses: No bonuses
Builders: Crypt (No TC anymore)
Abilities:
Animate Dead (Current range)
Hell Of Pain By Sacrifice
Pain And Hit
Raise Skeletal Dragon (3 corpses)
Active Effects:
Lifesteal
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:08 pm
by Typhoon
LordOfAles wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:01 pm
Liches were never weak in fantasy. Quite the opposite, they were one of most fearful undead to exit. The current lich is simply...how to say... Completely fragile and barely useful. my concept is to make it like a battlemage, something liches usually are. I really hate this Warcraft oriented lich.
Cost: 7
Attack: 13
Hp: 42
Armor: 0/5
Spell resistance: 100%
Action/Turn: 1
Bonuses: No bonuses
Builders: Crypt (No TC anymore)
Abilities:
Animate Dead (Current range)
Hell Of Pain By Sacrifice
Pain And Hit
Raise Skeletal Dragon (3 corpses)
Active Effects:
Lifesteal
Definetely this is what I wanna see
Independent powerful fearful infamous magician
and not reanimator made of paper and sticks I understand other casters may not be that powerful. But guys
Its Lich!
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:20 pm
by StormSaint373
Agreed. They shouldn't be so down played.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:23 pm
by Midonik
Ehhh.... You are going to replace the current lich with that? ALL the maps that uses liches, or just undeads, will be broken as heck.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:27 pm
by makazuwr32
Current lich needs a smaller update.
What do you suggest must be new unit.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:15 pm
by makazuwr32
makazuwr32 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:35 am
Typhoon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:55 pm
Makazuwr32's Concept
Cost - 6 turns
Hp - 14
Attack - 3
Range - 1
Armor - 0/4
Speed - 2
Sight - 8
Spell resist - 40%
Abilities:
-Convert
-Hell of pain by sacrifice
-Raise dead
-Summon skeleton dragon
-
Shadow trickery
-Rotten (spell of troll shaman)
Increased a bit p.armor, changed mind corruption spell to rotten.
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:20 pm
by Savra
Hm, you know pain and hit actually sounds more like a orc style move anyway. Since they can heal themselves maybe we could just switch rotten for orcs out with pain and hit while undead get rotten?
Re: Lich redesign
Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:20 pm
by makazuwr32
I don't care for now about pain and hit spell. especially because alex still wanted to revamp spells for orc and troll shamans.