New Celtic unit : Kern IMPLEMENTED

[Badnorth]

Kerns were light troops who relied on speed and mobility, often utilising lightning strike tactics as a force-multiplier to engage much larger formations.
The dart was the weapon of choice for the kern, the bow never achieving popularity in the country. Kerns were of great use in the warfare that revolved around cattle raiding in Ireland at the time. Their role was to herd captured cattle away from the enemy territory and to support heavier troops such as the gallowglass. When confronted by English style regiments, the kern would follow enemy troops on their march route, firing on them with darts, javelins, and stones from slings. Occasionally, provided the terrain and timing was right, kerns would move in for close combat. If their opponents broke and ran, they could easily be run down by the swift kern.

[Badnorth]

If concept is good I will make a sprite.
Here is the stats for now:
Affected by warpaint*
Celtic*
Archers*
Affected by blacksmith archer upgrades*
Trained at barracks
Cost: 3
Hp: 15
Atk: 5
Spd: 4
Rng: 4
Armor: 0/1
Sight: 6
Spell resistance:
Bonuses:
50% archers
75% Light foot melee
100% medium foot melee


EDITED...

[L4cus]

5 attack and 4 range for a 2 turns unit that can transform into a melee version is too op!
remember that a hybrid must be worse than a regular unit with the same cost (each version) if not, it would be unbalanced...
i just saw it even has bonus v buildings...just too op

[Badnorth]

How about a turn 3 ?

[L4cus]

i would preffer him to be an anti-infantry focused unit...

[Badnorth]

Do you think this is a good idea?
What do you prefer? Melee or ranged?
Because Im gonna make the sprite..

If ranged a blow dart or javelin
If melee a short sword or a spear

[Badnorth]

So this unit will be an anti infantry unit

[L4cus]

if ranged, a javelin and a roundshield (0/1 armor would make sense)
if melee, a short sword

[Badnorth]

It seems the spear thrower imade from spear thrower topic won't be used.
I'll put it here.

[Endru1241]

Don't be so hasty on determining what would be used and not - there were cases when topic was laying around for months (some maybe even longer) and yet were finally implemented - spear thrower is very young topic comparing it.
Going back on topic.
If kern is supposed to be fast, ranged, anti-non-heavy-melee, then it sounds like a hybrid of archer and skirmisher. As it doesn't have to be anti-archer, then it could take speed and view range from skirmisher, maybe with limited bonus vs archers and bonuses from archers.
Disadvantages: skirmisher lower range, low hp, archer category.

[Badnorth]

Sounds good I'll change stats.
Should it remain on cost 3 ? I'll not change it for a while

Edit: then I'll change the current kern sprite...or spear thrower sprite

[phoenixffyrnig]

I missed this first time round. I belatedly support the introduction of this unit as I was thinking of something very similar myself.

Mainly a collation of points already made, but I think his role should be purely ranged, and as an anti-infantry unit. Javelin would be the better choice in my mind. Possibly with full counter to reflect the fact that in real life they did use their javelins as missiles or melee?

I'm also thinking, since these guys came from pretty rugged terrain, they should also be able to move across mountain tiles like the Ranger.

Edit - btw, image looks great

[phoenixffyrnig]

Just found out that Kern is the Anglicised version of their name. I would prefer them to have the proper Irish name (they were proud people after all, the Celts).

What would be better, the plural form "Ceithern" or the singular "Ceithernach"? (Interestingly, Ceithernach is still used in Irish for the pawn in chess - thanks Wikipedia )

[Badnorth]

Unit kern.

[Badnorth]

Changes+

[phoenixffyrnig]

Another nice one Quaddy not sure how long their javs were in real life, but might look better/clearer if it was a bit longer, maybe almost same height as him?

[Badnorth]

.

[phoenixffyrnig]

Yes! Looks great man

[Endru1241]

The image looks good.
But I am thinking to get new rule going on to have all ranged units indicate that in the graphics (currently roman auxiliary skirmisher would have to be changed).
This thought came to me seeing that routier, atl-atl and skirmishers all have javelin over/behind the head. And that I cannot recognise which auxilary is spearman and which is skirmisher.
Well, to be truthful - I am still not sure if it makes sense in reality, as we already have hard to distinguish polearm category.
What do you all think?

[phoenixffyrnig]

What, like units that use spear as melee hold it in upright, present arms position (as Quaddy's image here) and units that throw their spears are shown with it freeze-framed in throwing motion?

Yeah, makes sense to me, especially with the vast numbers of different units we have now.

[Endru1241]

Exactly.

I would like to hear similar idea to differenatate images of axe throwers vs axe melee users, but that probably requires new topic.

[phoenixffyrnig]

Just to sneak in a swift reply here, could axe throwers hold it in one hand up high, again a freeze frame of throw motion, and axe wielders hold it in two hands in front of them in a weapons ready or striking action?

[Badnorth]

I'll change the kern position.

[Badnorth]

How's this?

[Badnorth]

Changed couple of things.

[Endru1241]

Looks great.

[Badnorth]

Looks great.

Thankss.

Is this the stats?

Here is the stats for now:
Affected by warpaint*
Celtic*
Archers*
Affected by blacksmith archer upgrades*
Trained at barracks
Cost: 3
Hp: 15
Atk: 5
Spd: 4
Rng: 4
Armor: 0/1
Sight: 6
Spell resistance:
Bonuses:
50% archers
75% Light foot melee
100% medium foot melee

[Badnorth]

I feel this should be a 2 turn unit. Kern were light infantry after all.

[Endru1241]

Light infantry doesn't need to be cheap necessarily.
As for stats:
Cost: 3
Hp: 12
Atk: 6
Spd: 4
Rng: 4
Armor: 0/3
Sight: 6
Bonuses:
+40% archers
+85% mounted archers
+200% elephant archers
+50% Light, medium foot melee and flying
(So really - both archer and skirmisher bonuses scaled to more damage)

As it would be classified both as archer and anti-archer - with those stats they could actually fill both roles (albeit less effectively)

[Badnorth]

They are affected by both war paint and blacksmith upgrades right? Seems fair.

I like this idea.