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Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:11 pm
by DreJaDe
Either long Yari ashigaru or Oda Yari ashigaru
Oda Nobunaga used a longer version of Yari that may even have the same length as the Macedonian sarissa.
Stats
Cost: 3
Hp: 11
Dmg: 8
Range: 2
Armor/r armor/ 0
Bonus
100% Mounted
200% Heavy mounted
150% heavy slow mounted
Special: first strike
Well, they are have longer weapon so I think they should atleast be able to attack before they could be attacked
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:41 am
by Morningwarrior
Does a lot of dmg,he dont have bonus gains elephants and you are another with ability to make great pixel art
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:35 am
by DreJaDe
Morningwarrior wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:41 am
Does a lot of dmg,he dont have bonus gains elephants and you are another with ability to make great pixel art
If that's a compliment then I'll take it.
It does have a high damage but it has lower health and lower bonus against cavalry
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:13 am
by Morningwarrior
Normaly pikemans have not much dmg,but i seen causes regular dmg
Yari ashigaru(recrutable)
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 pm
by Morningwarrior
Hp:12
Atk:4
Rng:2
Armor:0/0
Spd:3
Cost:2
Sight:5
Polearm wearer,light foot,anti-cavalry
Bonus
+140% vs mounted
+200% vs heavy mounted(slow)
+240% vs medium cavalry
+325% vs heavy cavalry
+450% vs elephant
Re: Yari ashigaru(recrutable)
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:39 pm
by L4cus
I think there is already a topic about this...
yari waswas not really long. so 2 range for doesnt fit...
and well i suposse it cost 2 turns right? 2 range anti cav unit withwith that cost is op at least in my opinion
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:38 pm
by Endru1241
Merged - DreJaDe proposition is about 2 range yari ashigaru after all.
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:43 pm
by L4cus
well, stats look worse tan regular pikeman...maybe 1 regular armorand more hp, they are gonna be affected by bushido so i think thats ok
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:50 pm
by Endru1241
Except regular pikeman have 50% higher cost.
That really changes much.
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:00 pm
by L4cus
my bad, i was talking about drejade stast ...3 turns cost, its the same as regular pikeman
btw pikeman gets upgraded and affected by blacksmith upgrades too
just bushido aura is not enought to balance it that way
so i think it could be:
3 turns
hp 20
attack 5
range 2
armor 1/0
speed 3
and the same bonuses as drejade suggestion
big difference with regular pikeman is the high hp, but i think this could be like the foot knight-legionary case where legionary hassimilar stats as foot knights (more hp but not affected by blacksmith upgrades+has not a propper upgrade)
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:03 pm
by Endru1241
But japanese units normally get all blacksmith benefits.
And hp difference between is really huge - enough to warranty some crippling category (e.g. medium infantry).
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:05 pm
by L4cus
ohhh, my bad, so 15 hp instead of 20 xd
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:51 am
by godOfKings
Does it have to b 2 range? I was thinking a rather 2 turn 1 range yari ashigaru with 5 atk with same anti mounted bonus as lancer (which is slightly lower than spearman) but with bushido aura it can reach max damage potential much faster than other conventional spearmen, pikemen and lancers (not necessarily since their techs need about 6 turns to reach 3rd tier while daimyo needs 7 turn)
So keeping stats similar to tanegashima ashigaru-
Cost: 2
Hp: 13
Atk: 5
Armor: 1/1
Speed: 3
Sight: 5
Spell resist: 0%
Lancer bonus against mounted only
Historically yari ashigaru were the cheapest and lowest rank peasant turned militias in japan and were mostly cannon fodders and only oda began to properly utilise them and tanegashima ashigarus, so there is no point in a separate oda unit and also i dont want them to cost same as samurai
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:20 am
by DreJaDe
godOfKings wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:51 am
Does it have to b 2 range? I was thinking a rather 2 turn 1 range yari ashigaru with 5 atk with same anti mounted bonus as lancer (which is slightly lower than spearman) but with bushido aura it can reach max damage potential much faster than other conventional spearmen, pikemen and lancers (not necessarily since their techs need about 6 turns to reach 3rd tier while daimyo needs 7 turn)
So keeping stats similar to tanegashima ashigaru-
Cost: 2
Hp: 13
Atk: 5
Armor: 1/1
Speed: 3
Sight: 5
Spell resist: 0%
Lancer bonus against mounted only
Historically yari ashigaru were the cheapest and lowest rank peasant turned militias in japan and were mostly cannon fodders and only oda began to properly utilise them and tanegashima ashigarus, so there is no point in a separate oda unit and also i dont want them to cost same as samurai
When I made this suggestion, I was actually thinking of the famous troops of ODA which has a longer pike than his enemies.
I also thought of another pike unit with different stats to the 2 already existing ones
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:45 am
by L4cus
maybe long yari ahigau could be a 3 turns unit and normal yari a 2 turns unit...
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:02 pm
by godOfKings
I watched a film on nobunaga's conquest and wat i learned is that the other clans looked down on ashigarus cuz they r peasant class and as such they also had hatred towards the samurai class because of this discrimination, nobunaga basically utilised this hatred and roused the morale of his ashigaru with it, making them more effective in battle, which earned them their fame
And i actually havent seen any historical reference of japanese using pike formation so i cant comment whether they should have range 2, in my opinion an early 2 turn tier 2 spearman is more than enough for japan faction
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:02 pm
by L4cus
WELL, IT COULD BE ONLY PRODUCED IN DOJO...BUT NORMAL YARI AT DOJO, TC AND BARRACKS
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:36 pm
by Endru1241
I agree with GoK on this.
Even if we tried to add specific ashigaru using nagae yari, that was extensively utilised by Oda Nobunaga there is one little problem.
Well - they were introduced by Oda Nabunaga, so around the end of game period (or later - depending on view on that).
So Oda's specific ashigaru could be unlocked by some social tech - ashigaru importance or something.
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:37 pm
by DreJaDe
Endru1241 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:36 pm
I agree with GoK on this.
Even if we tried to add specific ashigaru using nagae yari, that was extensively utilised by Oda Nobunaga there is one little problem.
Well - they were introduced by Oda Nabunaga, so around the end of game period (or later - depending on view on that).
So Oda's specific ashigaru could be unlocked by some social tech - ashigaru importance or something.
I actually remembered that someone suggested already to implement the Yari ashigeru in game but was ignored.
So I thought it was denied and so I made this suggestion.
What I meant is that, that should have been a 2 turn version of spearman for Japan and I thought it was rejected so I made a new suggestion which I thought was more unique.
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:39 pm
by L4cus
There are tood posibilities for ashigaru units...
But maybe too much 2 turns units for dojo production would not be safe...balancing sake i mean
'Cause there is bow, arquebus, yari, sword, tate (shielded)
And long yari too. I dont think endru agree with adding to many variants...
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:13 am
by godOfKings
The main reason yari wasnt implemented b4 was bcuz category was messed up, like knight would deal bonus dmg to yari ashigaru, and to counter that yari was given too high armor, spearman (or pikeman as it was called in the old days) didnt have a category so it was the only pole arm unit that didnt get bonus damage from mounted units
But thanks to endru's painstaking efforts, all the categories r properly organised so yari ashigaru can now b completely changed and balanced without any restriction from messed up categories
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:59 pm
by Morningwarrior
Oh so not looks trouble now,but eventually ashigaru is a low class troops in medieval japan,more ashigaru class will arrive,like nodachi,tate,teepo,archer etc.
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:18 am
by DreJaDe
I have thought of a better thing for this unit if this won't get to the game as buyable.
It can be just an editor unit then.
In the future, a guy with interest on making the Japanese sengoku jidai campaign may find use to this units.
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:23 am
by Morningwarrior
no no, if so, tanegashima ashigaru tbm would be a map editor unit, which is being debated for this unit to be recruitable.
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:33 am
by DreJaDe
Since this topic is dead and almost no one wants a Japanese spearman.
Ill just do a redesign of the current map editor version of the Yari Ashigaru.
If possible, can this be put in game?
They could be like 2 turn Infantry oriented spearman which the Japanese used more as anti infantry rather than anti cav.
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:01 am
by Endru1241
Actually GoK already made json for yari ashigaru and it will be included in next update or one after that, along with few other far east units.
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:09 pm
by Endru1241
DreJaDe wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:33 am
Since this topic is dead and almost no one wants a Japanese spearman.
Ill just do a redesign of the current map editor version of the Yari Ashigaru.
If possible, can this be put in game?
They could be like 2 turn Infantry oriented spearman which the Japanese used more as anti infantry rather than anti cav.
And finally I used this skin for cheap 2 turn unit.
But at least something is implemented.
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:35 am
by DreJaDe
Awesome. I would have want at least a unique unit but Japan being quite cheap (as game mechanic) for it's units is a good quality on it's own.
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:08 am
by godOfKings
Its cheap but with the help of bushido aura, onmyoji buff and demoralise debuff from oni mask it can b scary as well
Re: Oda Yari Ashigaru
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:53 am
by DreJaDe
godOfKings wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:08 am
Its cheap but with the help of bushido aura, onmyoji buff and demoralise debuff from oni mask it can b scary as well
Yup. I learned this quite well from buff meta players.